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Comment by godelski | Hacker News Reader

  > As an Australian, I'm not sure that I care about the safety of my data when it comes to LLMs. US companies already stole scores of data

I'm not sure I understand this. I'm not defending the US, but isn't your data being in more hands worse?

Also, isn't Australia in a more contentious situation with China? Them being more allied with the US and all? Not to mention the whole nuclear sub issue. Having data stolen is shitty either way but isn't data taken by an adversarial country a worse situation?

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If I spoke freely about how I feel about the US right now and the direct personal impact of policies implemented by the recent administration, I'd be denied entry into the country to visit friends later this year.

It is inconsequential if the US or China have my data, both will misuse it and I am powerless to protect myself from that fact.

Not using LLMs presents a bigger threat to my career than protecting my data.

Correct - As an Australian I feel free to say anything. But as an Australian who might like to travel again to the USA at some point in the future, I do not feel I have freedom to share openly online.

Whereas, China does not ask for my social network logins, or for me to be pre-approved to travel there. So that is unlikely to be affected.

  > If I spoke freely about how I feel about the US right now

If you read my comment as defending the US then you've misread. Also, you're probably just as pissed as 60% of Americans

  > It is inconsequential if the US or China have my data

Sure it does. The way each distributes data between government and industry has some differences. So too does the different disinformation campaigns each country is running against Australia.

But the main point is really that 2 > 1. 1 country scraping your data is bad. 2 is worse.

> you're probably just as pissed as 60% of Americans

Yet you voted for it

To be fair, most of their votes don't actually count.

And even with our westminster system, One nation has swept the right wing. Considering how many seats they will likely get in the next election, my high horse has shrunk a fair bit.

Me? I didn't vote for the orange Nazi

Because you think by voting for the other person AI companies and USA government wouldn't misuse all the data they hoard?

Why do you think I like them or support those actions?

Do you support everything the Klingon Empire does? That doesn't seem like the Worf I know. The Worf I know can distinguish the people of a civilization from the leaders of their societies. To conflate them just creates the problems you are criticizing

The klingon empire isn't a democracy, we don't delude ourselves that simply swapping one single person would have made a difference.

The same fact is true in a democracy. A democracy specifically is set up so just a single person doesn't rule. That's called a dictatorship.

But you turn a democracy into a dictatorship through tribalism. So forgive me if I get mad at you trying to place me into a nice well defined box. You're helping erode the democracy I (and so many others) desperately want to maintain (and improve).

What would Worf do?

I'm certain he wouldn't have done what you did

Sorry that you're being blamed. People have a pretty negative sentiment towards Americans in general right now because we have been watching helplessly in horror as our best friend tears things down.

I have friends in blue states who didn't vote because it wouldn't have changed the outcome given the electoral college - it's unfair to blame them for not participating as they were never able to in the first place.

Not that democrats are angels. You guys are damned if you're blue / (extra) damned if you're red - given the state of both options.

I appreciate that you're doing what you can

Consider that USA's government logic is: "if we don't like a government we will kill civilians until they rebel and put a government we like". See Cuba for example.

So, by their own metric, they aren't helpless at all and should appreciate other countries aren't as savage as they are with civilians, instead of complaining.

Look Worf, I'm just one human. You don't know me. You don't know what I'm doing or not doing. But I know you're making our situation worse and I know you're not living up to the ethics of your namesake

As an Australian.. politically I need to worry about business data touching China. It will come up at a Risk Advisory Committee meeting as a serious issue.

In actual personal practice, no. China having my data presents no actual impact to me, America will do things that impact me.

Exactly. And I feel the same way as a US citizen.

China is mostly interested in geopolitical stuff and getting an economic advantage, plus they have no jurisdiction in the US. Your data in the hands of the US government however could potentially land you in prison.

Most Aussies aren't really worried about China... China remains our largest trading partner, and polling shows less than half of Australians think the AUKUS alliance (which includes the nuclear subs) makes our region safer.

Latinamerican here. When you talk about "adversarial country" I think of the USA (they can kidnap a president, kill people on boats without a trial, etc) and not China. YMMV for different regions.

Yes, that's why they specifically were talking to an Australian person about their experience in Australia.

China is not digging through my social media in order to find a reason to cut my grant funding. China isnt going to pull me over for speeding in montana only to examine my phone to see whether i am maga enough to get off with a warning. And china isnt at o'hare security scanning for anyone with skin darker than freshly fallen snow. China may be evil, but it is a far away evil that doesnt have a physical impact on my day to day. The other evil is much closer to home. Even if it is not the biggest, the crocodile closest to the canoe is always more concerning than the one still on the bank.

… the one closet to your canoe is loudly warning you of the dangers of the one still on the bank

AKA don't worry about an imminent death threat! You might get seriously ill decades from now! Worry about that instead!

Re Australia vs China

https://youtu.be/sgspkxfkS4k?si=JgnhenF0qeTZXeGS basically explains the situation.

While having data/code stolen isn't ideal, there is a certain point where you need to assume it's already out there. There's actually more probability of harm from shady US companies imo, because people are less suspicious about data sovereignty

When you paste youtube (or instagram) links, it's good practice to remove the doxxing share link identifiers (?si and everything past it)

Historically speaking, the US might even be a larger risk to Australia than China is. The US alliance goes back a long way, and so does the opposition to US influence. Since the Whitlam government, MPs are generally fearful of US retaliation, rendering much of our politics hostage to US influence. Of course, some PMs have openly embraced the US so this feeling isn't universal. But many of our issues are directly tied to the US.

China has been far more beneficial to Australia by comparison, with the downside being the encroaching influence of CCP propaganda. Many of our strengths are tied to our relationships with Southeast Asia.

Paul Keating has famously declared US as an "aggressive ally", "our colonial masters", AUKUS as our "worst international decision", and that "our future is in Southeast Asia". This was under Biden too.

So the situation is much more complicated, and the feelings on the ground right now is that the US are not our friends (of course, the CCP is not great either).

You don't even need to step foot on US soil for the US to be a risk to you

c.f. Kim Dotcom

The same Kim Dotcom who was arrested in Germany, extradited from Thailand to Germany, and most recently has been parroting Russian propaganda points about Ukraine? The same one whom the New Zealand legal system has allowed to exhaust every legal avenue and remains free to this day?

There are much better examples to use to showcase the US's extrajudicial/international reach than this guy.

>and most recently has been parroting Russian propaganda points about Ukraine

Yeah but is that a jailable offense though? What about his freedom of speech?

Or should we just lock up everyone who says things we don't like?

Not jailable. But I'm absolutely free to disregard moral agency of mr. Kim Dotcom and stop paying attention to whatever he says or what happens to him as a result of his support for warring Russia.

Would you be OK if everyone else disregarded the laws to see you punished for things not illegal?

No one said for the laws to be disregarded!? Why are you lying about what people are saying? Does it feel good to win against your own imagination?

Did I say it was a jailable offense? You might want to actually read what people write instead of arguing with your imagination.

Laws are ultimately defined by the boundary and edge cases.

The godly person, doing no wrong, that through unfortunate circumstances, is brought before the court does not advance our understanding of a law.

It's the messiest case, by unscrupulous persons, in unconscionable circumstances that ultimately decide if the execution of that law gives the public more or less rights than on initial interpretation.

Yes, but public minds are not made up by edge cases. Surely a better example could be used rather than a divisive criminal.

Also, not sure how anyone except bad actors or sloppy readers could have gotten that I was defending the US here instead of criticizing using Kim Dotcom as an example in characterizing the US's actions.

> Also, isn't Australia in a more contentious situation with China?

China does not run 'rendition flights' to kidnap other countries' citizens and hold them in gitmo style prisons for decades. China cannot compel and does not compel random countries to extradite foreign citizens to China to persecute them and lock them up. Guess who does.

USA is an adversarial country to everyone in 2026.

even itself!

Given what happened January 6th the unsettling truth is the USA is essentially an occupied nation.

> isn't your data being in more hands worse?

> Having data stolen is shitty

Fun fact: Deepseek can be hosted by third parties even yourself.

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