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Comment by drnick1 | Hacker News Reader

What for? Ethernet is what you ultimately need, because that is what devices such as PCs and WiFi access points use. I experimented with SFP for a while, but ultimately concluded that it isn't worth the effort to add SFP cards to PCs now that that low-power 10G Ethernet chips like the RTL8127 are available. High-end motherboards already have 10G Ethernet and soon lower-end models will too. 2.5G is practically standard already.

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Ever ran a single mode bidi fibre in a conduit? Push a wire puller, cleave and terminate ends, done. Zero effort unlike pulling a jacketed CAT7 cable, zero worries from electrical interference too, future proofing up to 40GBps. I ran double strands in my house so in case one breaks, there's another.

The floors where native fibre is not needed have a cheap ethernet media converter from fs.com, everything else (3 floor switches) are interconnected with 10Gbps SFP+ modules and 2.5G ethernet for the hosts.

All done thanks to the great https://michael.stapelberg.ch/posts/2020-08-09-fiber-link-ho...

(if you are reading this, I owe you several beers)

The issue with this setup is that you need an extra switch with an SFP+ uplink or media converter in each room or place where Ethernet will be used. And then you still need Ethernet cables anyway for the end devices. I can't justify this complexity for 40Gbps when I can now get 10Gbps inexpensively and conveniently.

Well, if you live in a multistorey house, each floor can be interconnected by bidi fiber, then you simply run ethernet to the end points.

Each floor's fiber terminates in a CRS310-8G+2S+IN except where I mentioned, there's a single 1G media converter.

If your walls are ripped open, then sure run some OS2 everywhere, but Cat 6A gets you 10GbE at 100m, but even 'only' Cat 5e or (plain) 6 gets you that speed up to 55m (per 802.3an):

* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/10_Gigabit_Ethernet#10GBASE-T

* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethernet_over_twisted_pair#Var...

Why the need for faffing about with media convertors, at least with-in your domicile? (Fibre outside / to the garage certainly makes sense.)

> Why the need for faffing about with media convertors, at least with-in your domicile? (Fibre outside / to the garage certainly makes sense.)

For all the benefits I mentioned above, plus no electrostatic shielding required, and all fibers end in a CRS310-8G+2S+IN.

> What for? Ethernet is what you ultimately need

Is answered in the comment you responded to:

> because the off ramp is clearly happening for ethernet at 10gbit/s

As for

> because that is what devices such as PCs and WiFi access points use

We are looking to the future. If you're putting stuff in the walls, then you should try to target something that will be adequate both today, and in 10 years from now.

Increasingly, prosumer stuff is including an SFP port. High end PCs will be shipping it in the near future, as well. And, while low-power chips are coming out, the simple fact is that physics are getting in the way.

I do think that the average home won't need more than 2.5gbps, pretty much indefinitely (an 8k video at "bluray quality" is about at most 5% of that bandwidth). But if you have any desire of going past 10gbps, Ethernet is not going to cut it.

And yes, before you ask, there is a 25gbase-t standard. Maximum distance: 30m (100ft). 100ft from panel to panel in a house? Oof.

> I do think that the average home won't need more than 2.5gbps, pretty much indefinitely

Yeah I'm not seeing a need for fiber or anything more than CAT6. Most household devices use WiFi and I think that will continue. People don't like wires. They're unsightly, collect dust, get tripped over, etc.

I already have coax cable and telephone wiring in my walls that's unused. One computer in my house has a wired network connection. Everything else, TVs, laptops, printers, phones, tablets, miscellaneous "things" are all WiFi.

That's fine.

In my house though, everything except printers, phones and laptops uses Ethernet. It just works and it's better.

> And yes, before you ask, there is a 25gbase-t standard. Maximum distance: 30m (100ft). 100ft from panel to panel in a house? Oof

Not to mention termination and interference considerations, etc. When I looked at it, I decided anything over 2.5g just wasnt worth all the extra hassle vs running fiber instead.

What? Ethernet is a layer 2 protocol, SFP and RJ45 are both layer 1 (PHY). Ethernet runs fine over both SFP and RJ45.

My APs are fiber now.

I expect my APs will be the last things to convert away from copper because of the need for power. (I just deployed new WiFi 7 APs with 10G PoE++ links.)

Yes, but 10G really is the limit. I'll eat my boiled boots if 25GbE copper becomes anything you could remotely consider "common".

We are pushing multiple gigabits over 100 year old phone lines so never say never.

Not never, just not common. Why would you even want it when fibre already does better, cheaper?

25G is definitely a thing over copper, just not over Ethernet :)

I mean.. cat8 already exists but it will never be common because most people who dont make home networking a hobby just use wifi.

Hell many many people now a days own only a tablet and phone and no desktop/laptop at all.

Someone else in this thread mentioned motherboards with SFP ports on them and I cant believe that will ever be common because people can barely handle the many flavours of cables using USB C, how are they going to manage the mishmash of transceivers that only like specific brands and the DAC cables that may or may not work depending on how they feel that day.

Server boards typically use SFP, and for typical consumers you’re 100% correct that wifi is all that matters.

For sure, I was thinking consumer desktop motherboards.

Even server boards often have their SFP in daughter boards specific to the chassis.

640KB still enough for everyone?

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