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Comment by philipallstar | Hacker News Reader

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> It's like if people in Wales were constantly firing rockets at London because they wanted to destroy all English people, and England doing nothing about it for years until there was a huge slaughter, and then finally retaliating.

Or just like the IRA… asymmetric warfare/terrorism is a natural response to violent oppression

Discarded proportionalty calculations is in response to asymmetric warfare/terrorism which is in response to violent oppression is in response to ethnic conflict, which is in response to migration which is in response to persecution.

Everyone has factors influencing their decisions but everyone still has their own agency and responsibility.

> Or just like the IRA… asymmetric warfare/terrorism is a natural response to violent oppression

In neither case was oppression happening. The IRA wanted a separate Ireland, and would kill other Irish people and English people to get it.

You'd be far more oppressed (read: killed) if you were a Jew in Palestine, or a gay man in Palestine, or any number of other things in Palestine. Israel was the place where you could be those things. The controls were in place to stop the people coming in that would bring Palestinian "morality" into Israel.

>asymmetric warfare/terrorism is a natural response to violent oppression

it always sounds more high-minded to adopt universal/philosophical wording, but it's highly effective, your point is well made. October 7th was violent oppression, your explanation is sound.

Who said their aim is to "wipe jews off the face of the earth"? Always claims without citations. The reality is quite different however[1]

[1] https://x.com/incontextmedia/status/1720877046664986750

The reality is definitely not different[0].

[0] https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calls_for_the_destruction_...

You still did not provide a source, and in fact, showed the opposite:

> the elimination of Israel as a modern country

Which is very different than the victim playing by the settlers. I gave you a primary source, not straw man arguments.

A straw man is where I mischaracterise your position. I don't know why you're saying that when I definitely didn't do that.

The straw man is that their aim is to "wipe jews off the face of the earth".

Counterpoint: https://youtube.com/shorts/3jdONbR7rcI

If you want to know how we got where we are, look up Tantura.

That is one perspective. Would you accept that there are other, equally valid, perspectives which challenge the one you repeated?

People are appropriately scouring your position because there was exactly what you are imagining: a population, living West of the rest of the UK, lobbing terrorist attacks at London. It's just that it was the Irish, not the Welsh, doing the attacks. History has given reason to the IRA's despicable methods; once the British got tired of the unionists' intransigeance, they sat down at the negotiation table and hammered a real deal to really end the violence.

The Palestinians engaged in violent warfare against the Israelis studiously study the IRA and the results they got. So your example is actually an example that proves that the Palestinians' methods could lead to success for them. You'll have to try again.

If the IRA's demands were that the British had to accept enough Irish migration to become a minority in their country (the right of return) somehow I don't think their despicable methods would have paid off.

The difference between the Irish and the Palestinians is the Irish took a real compromise and peace deal. They didn't demand the instant return of Northern Ireland and refuse all compromise to that issue, committing multiple generations to fruitless violence and high death rates.

Edit/clarification: I forgot about British multiculturalism. You would have to imagine Britain had similar 'national and ethnic trauma' to Israel for first IRA example to really work.

The IRA's goal was to unite Northern Ireland with the rest of Ireland. That goal, while not as hard to attain as the right of return, was still unacceptable to the UK. The IRA achieved some of its goals, and clearly decided to bide their time in peace. The Palestinians could hope for the same sort of partial victory, with a negotiated peace with the Israelis.

It was unacceptable to Northern Ireland.

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