Comment by hectaman | Hacker News Reader

Comment by hectaman | Hacker News Reader

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I don't think it's fair to say this work has happened in the shadows. I work on CNCF wasmCloud, and I know how hard we try to make this content available.

- Many standing meetings organized around SIGs, all on the public community calendar: https://calendar.google.com/calendar/u/0/newembed?src=events...

- A dedicated Zulip: https://bytecodealliance.zulipchat.com/

- Conferences organized around exactly these topics: Wasm Day, WasmCon, Wasm I/O, and the Bytecode Alliance Plumbers Summit

- CNCF projects: wasmCloud, Spin

- Blogs, many with recordings, summaries, and transcripts: https://bytecodealliance.org/articles/the-road-to-component-..., https://wasmcloud.com/community/, https://spinframework.dev/blog/index

If you want the architectural direction straight from the source, Luke Wagner's keynotes are the best place to start:

- "What is a Component (and Why)?" (WasmCon 2023): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tAACYA1Mwv4

- "The Path to Components": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=phodPLY8zNE

- "Towards a Component Model 1.0" (Wasm I/O 2026): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qq0Auw01tH8

I mean this, though - what else would you like to see to try and make the content and process more accessible? Are there communities that are doing this really well that we could use for inspiration?

> - "What is a Component (and Why)?" (WasmCon 2023): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tAACYA1Mwv4

At 18:00 the speaker states something like "It should not be Systems Interface but Standard Interfaces" which honestly sounds like a different project. As an implementer or even as just a user in general, can it be trusted that tomorrow it isn't something completely different? Seems like an odd standard to follow.

(EDIT and aside: Rereading this it reads more dismissive than I meant it. So if this isn't clear: I want WASI to succeed. I think having a widely used system interface is great, but I think many know standards that suffered from scope creep. And while big successful standards for better or for worse at least have a chance of surviving this, WASI as the 0.3 indicates is in its infancy. So I worry about it turning out bad, leading to people abandoning the idea altogether or the standard losing sight of its initial goal. So while this is criticism the only reason I bother to write it in first place is because I badly want it to succeed. I worry that if WASI tries to do too much at once - and I totally understand wanting to do that - it makes it less likely to be successfully implemented and thereby less likely to succeed as a standard.)

If you are looking for a Systems Interface, I don't think the Component Model will be a good fit

The speaker is right. Why should "system" interfaces and interfaces from other components ever be fundamentally different?

I get that. That's not my criticism. My criticism is that you can do say that about many things. With that argument you can essentially encompass everything, which is cool in a way, but also means that the scope is at least bigger than the original - hence what the speaker says.

What I worry about here is that when I think about implementing it the scope will likely grow as well. And while I very much get the wish to encompass things in a standard (I think everyone who ever wrote any kind of specification knows that) a standard doing that extension when the initial goal of being a (commonly used) system interface isn't achieved - at least that's how'd interpret being 0.3 now - then what if that scope extends like that. Will we see full implementations?

To me it seems like maybe it would have made sense to separate that a bit. Something like a WASI based standard. Or something else. The fact that you almost need to change your name like this indicates that you went quite a bit away from the initial goal and doing that before a 1.0 seems like a very early point to get of course for any project. Sure sometimes you find out that you have looked at it from the wrong angle, but honestly this doesn't look like it. This looks a lot more "this is something we can reuse".

So join the community and be the change you want to see in the world?

It was not fair. It was how I felt trying to build on it. I love the content that was produced, but it was all very experimental and garden shedded from a decision-making angle.

To answer directly, I would credit the PSF and python community with having the best structure that has outlasted my weirdest expectations.

Yeah, I feel that - everything was so green in the beginning that getting a Hello World together was painful. When I started, I was still at a big bank, and there wasn't even an IDL selected, so we just started building with SMITHY. Then adopting WIT, etc...

I would say now, especially with AI and Rust, it is night and day. I think as folks come to the conclusion that they care more about what gets built than the how it is done, they start to feel the need for a sandbox. So, WASI P3 is coming along at a really fortunate time. I haven't had any issue nearly oneshotting things directly into wasm with claude.

I appreciate the suggestion on good communities doing it well.

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