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Comment by yurishimo | Hacker News Reader

I think the "fraud" they are likely referring to is working 3 jobs at the same time as a software developer. Do all of the jobs know you have 2 others in the same line of work? If you're a consultant and advertise as such, no big deal imo, but I do think there is something to be said if you can't be honest with all of your employers about what other work is on your plate.

Programming is by definition technical work that requires a significant amount of brain power and focus and if I am an employer (a good one!) I would intuitively expect a certain level of focus from each employee that also entails a certain amount of downtime in order to stay fresh and alert.

This is my attempt at a steel-man of their argument. If your employer(s) is happy with your output and you aren't lying about your availability in order to juggle everything, then there is no harm imo.

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No they don't know and if they did I would get fired obviously.

Thus 3 laptops and sometimes there are meetings which can overlap and that is always a challenge.

Yes nobody is complaining about the output and they are getting their money's worth.

I just think that as a modern day salaryman its silly to rely on one employer now or have any sort of loyalty.

It's okay to ** over the average working guy but not okay when they do anything to position themselves away from that arrangement.

> No they don't know and if they did I would get fired obviously

And yet, above, you're still asking where the fraud is. You clearly know you're violating the terms of your employment agreement. That's the fraud. It's not complex.

contract violation != fraud

A breach of contract, if there even is one, is not magically fraud because you dislike it or find it offensive. Fraud requires damages. So be specific:

What damages occurred if the work was delivered and accepted and both parties are satisfied?

the employer would be upset if they knew thats your assumption. But that’s not fraud that’s you projecting your own morals here over and over out of jealousy

Fraud is a specific thing. Failing to uphold a contract, even deliberately, isn't automatically fraud.

> No they don't know and if they did I would get fired obviously.

This already shows the problem. They assume they are paying for your time exclusively, while you are doing just enough to satisfy them.

The fact you go such lengths to hide the fact that you are three timing them also shows that you know what you are doing is not acceptable.

Most likely you are in breach of the employment contract.

You are also somehow justifying this to yourself. The problem is that such behavior causes loss of trust and makes other 95% of honest peoples' life painful.

I don't see an issue since they are happy with my output. Who's getting hurt here ? That I'm working more efficiently then someone hired to do the job 9-5 ?

so you want me to make less money, couple myself to an employer who doesn't offer any upward mobility or job stability because you think its immoral that finally the dynamics have tipped the balancing pole in the workers favor?

are you not speaking out of jealousy here?

>are you not speaking out of jealousy here?

I am not envying your situation at all.

People who are getting hurt are people like you and me. Employers are seeing your comments. They are reading about others who do this. They are losing trust. When they pay you, they expect you to work for them diligently and not just up to a level of KPI. This behavior will make them to force people to come to work. Remote working will be gone. They will start paying less because they expect people to two time anyway. Overall society loses due to loss of trust.

So you gain something, but society as a whole loses.

P.S. Even if my wife is very happy with me, it doesn't mean that I can have another relationship. Either I have an agreed open marriage or I am cheating. A different thing, but I would say similar.

How am I getting hurt here my income is 3x

The KPIs are there specifically to measure time to results not how long you stuck around the office for

How am I responsible for your situation (I don't even know you) and why do you look to others to do it for you?

Are my employers here right now in the room with us ?

Are you going to blame me if your wife leaves you tomorrow because she read you hinted at wishing you were with somebody else?

Like how far does this go ? What else do you plan on blaming me for ?

Breach of contract is a civil issue, they could probably fire you without recourse (contract is void) but that's the extent of it if you didn't do anything else wrong.

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