It's so surprising that despute so many screams "China" in western media in the last 15 years, it happens in the west, but in China it's free to use any OS without any negative consequences. Why? What's going on?
I’m not defending the UK police’s actions here but “it’s just as bad as China!” is a refrain you see often that rarely adds up.
We should be criticizing our governments. But for the things they’re actually doing. Not what we imagine them to be doing.
yup, me and my whole family using VPNs on there phones were arrested and placed in labor camp, I'm writing this now from camp, sending it to gateway on pigeon...
but seriously, these people fear mongering arbor China are completely clueless, China absolutely doesn't care about you unless you go against gov, nobody checked our phones at border, nobody bothered us, at the Beijing province border checks they noticed we didn't register our accommodation which is mandatory and just let us go on our trip anyway telling us to go to police after weekend where we met extremely laid-back police officers smoking under no smoking sign
been living there for years and the situation was same, I fucked up paperwork which would in US lead to detention and deportation, in China we always found solution, there is always workaround for rules, China doesn't care about you unless you do something extreme against the gov
I remember being on high horse about freedom and other BS regarding West vs china, but since COVID I'm more and more failing to see the difference, quite the opposite for West
> didn't register our accommodation which is mandatory
>> Foreigner: just let us go on our trip anyway
>> Citizen: sent to detention and beaten to death [0]. Reverse ICE?
Police is friendly and laid back for foreigners, in China there are even foreigners advertising to call the police for you if you lost something, simply because police will be more responsible if a foreigner is involved. And they are also more flexible like your experience shows, which does not apply to citizens.
There are more examples, like gfw, for foreigner there are even volunteers at major airports helping you install VPN, while for citizens you can get fined or warned with an official record in your dossier.
Or like COVID you mentioned, during the lock-down period foreigners have prioritized access to foods and necessities. One extreme case I remember is a wealthy couple in Shanghai ran out of those things. And how did they get through? They happened to hire a Philippine nanny at the time, and that gives them priority, despite not officially registered like you. Imagine your gov prioritize your servant over you.
maybe visit China to have clue instead parroting someone's propaganda
and no, there are NOT volunteers helping you with VPN at airport, not sure what are you smoking
I pick the previous linked case because what he did is exactly what you did, and I am not arguing for general law enforcement.
I go to major expos in China multiple times a year, and the volunteers are there, every time. You can find advertisements for sim cards, vpn services not only at airports, but also hotels, etc.
If you can't criticize or protest Xi in China, try criticize or protesting the laws in rest of the world. Especially the things they do in the name of privacy, I remember UK jailing folks for FB posts, that's stuff that happens in third world countries.
Not that UK ever had much of a leg to stand on, US does the same now very scary.
For trips to any of the countries first thing I check is my socials and delete stuff that might get checked on airports now. This was apparently not supposed to happen in the developed world.
My friends still tell me it's not that bad, but it's just scary reading stuff on HN like this once a month, every month for the last few years.
I’m not defending the US policy for a second, it’s totalitarian. But holding China up as a positive comparison to totalitarian impulses is missing the bigger picture.
tell me you know nothing about China without telling me you know nothing about China besides parroted propaganda
The only cases this has happened has been over people actively calling for racial violence over an imagined scare - bunch of morons thought a muslim migrant killed someone, so they went on to riot, burn mosques, assault foreign looking people, etc; on day 2 it was revealed the perpetrator was a Britain born Christian son of foreign origins, but the morons didn't care, they had their excuse.
I struggle to think of many countries where calling for immediate violence, on Facebook or in public with placards, is acceptable. Or any reason why it should be.
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cwyenzdz66wo
Sure courts won but the arrest is the issue. Courts general also win in other democratic third world countries but the initial arrest is enough of an intimidation.
Also this is a slippery slope I remember one person you mentioned were bad but there was another which wasn't nearly as bad.
Also folks on the other side can say the same thing when you call them fascists or something.
Sure saying bad stuff is bad, but it's very very fucking slippery slope.
All speech is hate speech of you are not in line with the current govt.
Another example from what you might consider hateful probably who went to jail and was acquitted but after a lengthy process.
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cvgv785n23eo
I am not saying UK is the next China but, it's rather fascinating people in UK to claim they have so much more freedom and privacy.
Basically if China is 100% authoritarian, UK is atleast 70% there. They just need a leader to abuse these systems to come in power.
Indeed, but police do this kind of thing in a lot of places. Didn't the US have multiple cases of people being arrested over comments on Kirk's death? It's not good, but cops on a power trip because you hurt their feelings is not a thing we can easily root out. Hence why courts matter.
> All speech is hate speech of you are not in line with the current govt.
Not at all what hate speech means.
> Basically if China is 100% authoritarian, UK is atleast 70% there. They just need a leader to abuse these systems to come in power.
Yeah, no, 70% is ridiculous. I'm not sure you can clearly measure this, but at most 50%. Even with an abusive leader you can still criticise them and the monarch without fear of actual repercussions. In China prison time is basically guaranteed.
There are cases where things atleast have a decent ending but that's not even a given in so called free and democratic world.
The only constant is rights for people get stripped and reduced in the name of safety and security. And people consider politicians willing to given fake, and nonsensical answers as the democratic process.
How is that different from an authoritarian state?
> Yeah, no, 70% is ridiculous. I'm not sure you can clearly measure this, but at most 50%. Even with an abusive leader you can still criticise them and the monarch without fear of actual repercussions. In China prison time is basically guaranteed.
Just to note most people just get deplatformed for this stuff in china they don't get jailed. Since they control media China doesn't even care about putting you in an actual jail cell if you aren't a major active threat.
As for actual repercussions, people are getting shot at, put in jail with (even folks with green cards in US), and banned from travel (in UK). I am not sure how that isn't 70% of the way there. But it's fine if it's already alright with you that you consider 50% authoritarianism Free.
I am certain you agree that this nonsense is on the rise. But I am also certain you just haven't considered how close it is to actual authoritarianism.
China isn't just shooting people who have said stuff against China I could get a visa and travel without too much hassle even after showcasing visible displeasure with the country's rules.
US and UK doesn't even like me mentioning them negatively if I am applying for a visa.
Living in Germany so UK might be much worse for all I know , but I would be surprised if Germany is the shining paragon for democracy now.
Sure we have a police state problem and I won’t pretend everything is peachy - but it’s far from as extreme as some comments here make it out to be
Not exactly what you asked but here’s something tangentially related
They’re also declining hard because of brexit and maybe fear public unrest.
And in China for dissent you go to a reeducation camp. Or maybe the China incidents aren’t newsworthy, just expected.
that may be true, but in the US, you get shot?
The situation is worse than it has been in the past but it’s not at China equivalence levels.
That line of propaganda pushed by the US government worked well for the better part of a century, not any more.