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Comment by kiernanmcgowan | Hacker News Reader

Such good news - for those looking for a relaxing hobby fly fishing is an excellent sport to get into. You spend all day standing in a river trying to out smart some fish and trout are exceptionally beautiful creatures up close.

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Agree. I think most fish are beautiful in a way, even the "ugly ones".

What I really love about the fish under discussion here is, for a long time they had no clue why some rainbow trout became steelhead, and some didn't. (They still don't know 100%) Such an interesting story, and a regular rainbow and a steelhead just seem almost like another species - different size, behavior and even taste when you eat them.

You want to have fun, get two fresh water fish biologists in a room and ask them if steelhead and rainbow trout are different species. Everyone has a different opinion they believe in passionately.

People for a long time didn't know what the reproductive cycle of eels is like, because they travel all the way from the Atlantic ocean and back while maturing, so nobody had ever seen a juvenile. Too bad they're critically endangered.

Thank goodness Freud searched for those eel dicks.

Not quite as relaxing if you’re the fish!

In a discussion about increasing fish population "after decades of effort", it's surreal to see a suggestion to kill them, or at the very least rip a hole in their mouths.

I'm always surprised at how people can be so unaware, suggesting killing as a meditative and beautiful activity...

I'll contrast with sibling comments. You're correct to raise caution towards fishing Pacific salmon, even in catch and release. Release mortality from one study I've found is about 25-40% https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S016578362... It's worse during high water temperatures. They're likely quite fatigued by the time they arrive.

That said, this caution is not always warranted generally. Location, species, and season significantly matter. In healthy ecosystems, there's no harm to the group even if the individual fish might not agree.

There are a lot of different fish, and most are not threatened in anyway. Often the larger threat is over population and they need predators - like humans - to prevent that.

You just aren’t educated about angling or fish.

Also are you aware of the California native tribes who exempt themselves from fishing regulations?

Could you educate us as to where the barbed hook goes?

I was surprised by the level of replies here and didn't have the energy to answer: thanks for the support, comforting to see after a long day.

In the fishes mouth. That’s how you catch them.

Is your claim that anglers decimate fishing population?

nope, i don’t think that claim holds water.

my claim would be something like how the recommendation of fishing in response to news of conservation efforts is as absurd as recommending spankings in response to news of more babies being born: stupid, harmful, and self-serving.

Barbed hooks are not allowed most of the time anymore.

And which would you prefer through your lip? Barbed, barbless, or nothing the fuck at all because people let you live your life undisturbed?

https://www.reddit.com/r/HardcoreNature/comments/13jabzl/not...

Bears are people when you’re on grindr, but that bear there isn’t a person, friend.

What difference does that make to the salmon?

obtuse and so dense;

fish swim happily upstream,

while rocks sink down fast.

Fish are not people and you’re projecting on to them. Do we need to start with whether you eat meat or own pets?

Animals other than humans feel pain and do tend to avoid it.

And nope, no eating meat for me (and like half a billion other people). It’s both easier and more empowering than one might think!

Great, then this really isn’t a debate about fishing. We completely disagree about the roles of animals in our life.

I’m sure we both have cared for and loved animals at some point! There’s nothing wrong with recognizing that a fish can feel pain much like a cat or a dog or a rabbit or a horse.

Can an insect feel pain? What about a mushroom, or a plant? What things are conscious enough to feel pain? I'm genuinely asking because I because it seems arbitrary as to where the line gets drawn. Before the 1980s it was the medical consensus that babies weren't capable of feeling pain even though this is now widely recognized as untrue.

I don't think the line is quite so arbitrary! Virtually all animals (with a few exceptions!) have a central nervous system, which is required to "feel" pain, to my understanding.

The good news is that we can adapt our thinking and behavior in light of new evidence.

Sure. And I think your lifestyle is a valid and respectable choice. Angling is just far downstream of topics to look at!

Fishers will spend a lot more money to keep a fishery alive than non-fishers will.

I mean catch and release is better than being dinner, and the prevalence of fly fishing as a hobby goes a long way toward garnering public and financial support for restoration activities.

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