Comment by fragmede | Hacker News Reader

Comment by fragmede | Hacker News Reader

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Nvidia doesn't own fabs though, TSMC does. By 2017, ASICs for Bitcoin were well underway. Ethereum hadn't switched to PoS, and wouldn't until 2022. For that specific question, the answer is yes, because the GTX 1080 Ti is/was a monster card, and the crypto miners have a somewhat predictable demand for them, so there's some modeling you can do based on demand for the 2016 generation of cards. The question is ofc, if you're Nvidia, what are you optimizing for? Let's say, without foresight that Ethereum would move to PoS in 2022 and that AI would replace that demand, how many 1090 Ti cards do you make, how many 1070s, how many mobile 1080s, how many Titans? In order to answer that, someone at Nvidia would have to have, for better or worse, really had to have gotten into cryptocurrency in order to understand that market. Because you, as Nvidia, know how much better the 1080 will be for mining Ethereum, certain predictions can be made on demand.

Question is, without hindsight, 2022 rolls around, Ethereum moves to PoS, do you sell NVDA?

TSMC doesn’t get to take the profit that currently accrues to Nvidia and Apple, even though they absolutely could from a business/leverage perspective, because they are an economic colony of the United states and hiking their prices (which Apple and Nvidia would have almost no choice but to pay, but would upset their benefactors) would jeopardize their national security/defense.

In a world where TSMC is functionally capable of the same level of production but not in such a complicated geopolitical situation regarding semiconductor manufacturing, things would be quite different.

Got me curious, how does TSMC price their products? Why don't they optimize for their own profitability?

TSMC builds new bleeding edge fabs and then amortizes them for many different customers over a decade or more, starting with higher margin customers (apple, nvidia, etc) and working down as time goes on and the higher margin customers then move on to newer plants. Today's bleeding edge fabs become tomorrow's mass market fabs for lower margin chips that go into cars/toasters/etc. The idea is that the early adopters pay for a decent chunk of the CAPEX and then it becomes a commodity play. It's the same way some auto manufacturers put new tech into their premium cars, then it trickles down to the mass market cars over time.

It's the main reason outsourcing fabs is so much more economical. If NVIDIA built fabs just for itself, the fab's CAPEX would be amortized over fewer components than if a third party did, even if NVIDIA was the largest customer. It's also one of the main reasons Intel fell behind. So much of their cashflow was to build fabs that made an order of magnitude less chips than TSMC. Even worse, they had to write down the CAPEX for the fabs, which affected their financial statements.

Anyways, companies like apple and nvidia have very long term horizons and contracts, which probably have first right of refusal contracts on capacity, etc. In the short to medium term, apple probably isn't paying much more for most components. If this memory shortage lasts decades, they'll eventually end up paying more.

Nvidia doesn't own fabs, but TSMC is doing a massive global fab expansion.

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