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Comment by H8crilA | Hacker News Reader

I always wonder why ECT doesn't get more press. It very very often works on depression (and bipolar disorder, catatonia; anything affective-related really), although the effects may wane over time when the treatment is discontinued. Memory loss is one of the side effects, and it could actually be beneficial here.

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I had a friend who just went through ECT. It did nothing for their depression and I left them with severe memory loss, and cognitive decline.

You’d be surprised to read the statistics about how poorly ECT works, and how little they understand about how to use it a treatment.

This is nuts. Bringing ECT into the discussion of a novel psychedelic medicine.

Totally different ballparks. Well-established results vs. very little formal research.

Have you had ECT, or do you know anyone who has? It's a last resort for horrible depression and not much else. It has huge risks, and while it does often make these people's lives manageable, it shouldn't be in the same discussion as a medication that's been out of discussion for political reasons.

shivers at the thought of ECT

My mother was treated with ECT for treating clinical depression and right afterwards she developed parkinsons. ECT was traumatic for her.

I do wonder how many more people would be open to ECT if instead of using the electrical pulse we would give people some drug that causes a brief seizure. Right after the anesthesia, of course, just like now - but there's no electricity involved. I don't even know if such a safe drug exists.

There's a sad history of exactly that - see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pentylenetetrazol

Also https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insulin_shock_therapy which used hypoglycaemic shocks rather than seizures.

It's strange how much attention novel psychedelic treatments get compared with older, less glamorous interventions that already help a lot of people

Yeah, super weird how people want to get away from the "less glamorous" intervention of deliberate brain damage.

Exactly. Just like paracetamol and autism. Like that's a difficult decision, duh.

People have been self medicating with shrooms and salvia since prehistoric times, perhaps reconsider what is novel?

My point exactly. I am not saying psychedelics do not help people, they clearly help some people with some problems. But the balance of research and general interest is not proportional to how promising both paths already look. For example, which treatments are safer long term? It's unclear. At the same time it's clear that there can be unwanted long term side effects. In one very particular case, pregnant women that unfortunately do need something, we already know from physics and data on anesthesia that ECT is the better choice.

Bring back lobotomy!

Because ECT is whitewashed shock therapy, which in turn- is a whitewashed lobotomy.

What about transcranial magnetic stimulation?

Like inducing a 'god' experience?

I suggest you read some publications on the topic, and not internet forum conspiracies.

Sorry if I find that things like https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/39804212/ existing in checks 2025 repulsive. Especially when those are the same arguments put forward for lobotomies. If somebody is capable of _ELECTING_ ECT, fine. But don't pretend that dosing somebody unconcious with benzos so they Can't seize, and reducing shock duration and intensity so theres no skin burning makes intentionaly brain damaging somebody to fit in with society any less horifying. If you don't like that example- theres plenty more for things like dementia among the elderly. Especially if they're in a retirement facility.

As for TCMS? It works- if you can find a place that's not a farm.

Anecdotal, but I had a friend who had ECT for their depressive symptoms.

They ended their life a few years afterwards.

So no, ”very often works on depression” is not a characterization I would use.

> So no, ”very often works on depression” is not a characterization I would use.

I'm (genuinely) sorry about your friend, and I don't deny that it's worth sharing these anecdotes. But a single anecdote comes nowhere near refuting the claim that ECT very often works on depression.

The current state of scientific knowledge seems to be that it does very often "work", at least as a fast-acting short-term treatment for very severe depression.

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