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Comment by 1vuio0pswjnm7 | Hacker News Reader

"As an individual, it feels like my options are to either submit or try to live a hermit's life, bringing endless suffering and exclusion to myself."

Classic "all-or-nothing", "black and white" HN comment

No middle ground. Two extremes and nothing in between

In the real world, few people think this way

Not only that, but it's common today to have more than one computer

There is no shortage of HN comments that keep claiming "banking apps" as an argument against any alternatives to using a single phone running a corporate mobile OS _for everything they do with a computer_, not just banking. Feels like a meme

These people must do a lot of banking on the go in places where laptops, for instance, cannot travel. If so, one wonders why not just have a phone dedicated to mobile banking

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This probably depends on location, but generally, you cannot log in to your bank account on your laptop/computer without using your phone's banking app for 2FA. That's the status quo among banks.

Whether it may be possible to convince a bank to give you a hardware token instead if they even still make them is not an assured thing.

> you cannot log in to your bank account on your laptop/computer without using your phone's banking app

Where is this?

I have lots of bank accounts, probably more than most people. Three local credit unions, Fidelity, Schwab, Chase, BofA, Citibank, Barclays, two local area banks, and two international banks. Plus a few lesser known ones for 401k/IRA accounts.

I have never installed any bank phone app. I do all my bank interactions from my desktop via Firefox.

MFA is a requirement of the revised Payment Services Directive (PSD2) in the EU and many banks use their apps for authorising online card payments. Its also common to use apps as 2FA for logging in to online banking or making bank transfers.

There can be alternatives in some cases (some banks offer code generating card readers, for example) but for personal accounts in particular, it would probably be difficult to operate without banking apps.

galvin@ is right. I +1'd that. Regarding banks ... try HSBC. (I know, "I can always use another bank". Thanks. I happen to be Premier only at HSBC ...)

This must vary a lot by location.

In Singapore, the largest local bank, and three large overseas banks (Citibank, HSBC and Standard Chartered) all require my to be near my phone to login. However, I haven't tried just saying I don't have a phone from the beginning. I know they used to have physical security tokens, perhaps they still would have provided one if I had insisted.

In New Zealand, I've only come across one bank that requires you to provide authentication from your phone (Rabobank), and in Australia I have less experience, but it's not universal either.

I have several accounts in different banks (across two different countries) and never had problems with using SMS as a second factor for internet banking. Definitely not status quo, at least in Europe.

I'm in Europe and my bank (and most other banks in the country) only still allow existing TAN authenticators until they break or run out of battery, but only support 2FA with their app going forward.

Interesting that you mention Europe, because if I remember correctly, at least in Germany, all banks that I'm aware of dropped SMS support when PSD2 was introduced.

The are people who dislike using Apple and Google smartphones

HN replies often try to reframe this problem from

(a) "How do I avoid using an Apple or Google smartphone" for whatever reason^[FN1]

(b) "Banking apps do not work on non-Apple, non-Google" smartphones

(c) Apple and Google smartphones need to become likeable, e.g., by pleading with the companies, petitioning the government for regulation, etc.

FN1. I have not seen any HN comments that suggest anyone is concerned about _using a banking app_ on an Apple or Google smartphone. What I have seen are comments that suggest Apple and Google smartphones are unsatisfactory for _other reasons_, such as being "locked down", "not an open platform", "privacy" risks, "security" flaws, etc. The non-banking uses of these smartphones are what cause concern

The problem (a) can be solved by choosing a non-Apple, non-Google smartphone, `i.e., a smartphone running a non-Apple, non-Google OS, or, better yet, by choosing a different form factor running a non-Apple, non-Google OS, _for non-banking uses_

There are some commenters who obviously have no intention of avoiding Apple and Google smarthones _where possible_. They will keep using these smartphones for _everything_, not just online banking

On that "lot of banking on the go" ... here is the story. I witnessed nice and very well mannered US woman at Hilton in Rome. She was red and her hands were trembling. She tried all her 5 US-issued CCs – none worked. I felt bad for her, so we sat on the sofa. We installed one of the online FinApps (W...e) on her phone. She used her bank's app to transfer money to W...e account. Generated online Mastercard. Added to apple wallet. Beeep. Room paid. Good luck without those apps and mobile phone.

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