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Comment by washingupliquid | Hacker News Reader

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Dang you nailed my profile perfect.

I bought one and its the best car I've ever had. Event though I was never a "truck" buyer it checked off all my needs: - space for wife, car seats + another adult when needed - haul around my kids, 4 bikes, skis, camping gear, etc. - drives itself - we do a ton of road trips - luxury - electric, tired of going to gas stations

Wasn't another car on the market that checked those boxes.

Have you ever driven one? They are amazing to drive.

Literally everything you listed can be done with any SUV.

Or, better yet, a minivan.

People think they want a pickup truck, or an SUV, or a Cybertruck, but what they really want is a hybrid Toyota Sienna.

can't fit 4 bikes in a minivan . on my previous SUV I had a rear rack and its such a PITA

You cannot be serious.

It was trivial to do this back before foldable seats were standard.

You can fit at least two bikes in just the shitty "trunk" space of your average minivan.

Every van ever made has more cargo space than the Cybertruck.

maybe this is an HN thing, but how would you bring your kids/wife and 4 bikes inside a minivan?

Assuming you have 2 kids, you remove the back row of seats, leaving four seats, and you can just load the four bikes up side by side in the back.

Like a hatchback, but much bigger.

I don't get how that works - quick look online: https://preview.redd.it/team-minivan-who-is-with-me-v0-oxprg...

That's one bike, with only 3 available seats and the front tire taken off. How would you do 4?

I mean yeah, you might need to take off some front tires https://www.reddit.com/r/bicycletouring/comments/1e4zzd1/fou...

You’re joking right? Do you have kids?

You "can" put three kids in the back of a Honda Civic. You "can" tow 10k with a Ford Ranger. They're both kind of a sucky experience for all parties involved and it makes perfect sense why people who can afford a vehicle with way more capacity go that route. It makes things that take care and precision and thought as mindless as throwing a light switch. They're not paying for capability, they're paying to make it easy.

I own a station wagon, a minivan, a pickup truck and a hatch (and my spouse drives a boring crossover). I completely understand why "buy a crew cab truck" has become the norm for people who want to just write one check a month to cover every use case.

Additionally, frequent "truck" usage is an absolute menace on wagon/minivan interiors.

have you used FSD? Have you used the best self driving from other manufacturers? I have. Its no comparison. I turn on FSD and it drives me driveway to driveway to a place in the mountains 4 hours away. I don't touch the wheel.

The same FSD that drove full speed, no reaction, into a wall in san antonio? It was a cybpertruck, too. Or how the cyber cabs have an insane high accident rate here in Austin? I literally move away from teslas when I drive because of this.

On top of that, every Tesla I have driven is poorly built. Ugly rattly plastic, bad panel gaps from the factory, factory paint not even matching, poor UX with everything jammed into the touch screen (lmao gotta go 4 levels deep in the UI to pop the glove box, unless they shipped a change for that). The brake pedal feel like stepping on a hard brick. No feel. Nothing. The drive by wire steering is like driving a 2005 nascar sim with no force feedback.

I could go on, they are objectively bad cars and for those who don't know cars and just want tech.

So I take it the answer to my question is no you haven’t used FSD

How is the Cybertruck luxury? The electric motors feel nice....but the car is so far from luxury. Have you ever been in an S class? A 7 series?

Literally most SUVs will tick most of these boxes at a significant discount.

I have owned a S class, a porsche 911 and several luxury SUVs.

"most of these boxes" - I need all.

>Wasn't another car on the market that checked those boxes.

Outside of "drives itself", I fail to see how much of what you described is unique. Seems very ordinary.

Nothing fits in this category, it's revolutionary (if you ignore every electric SUV on the market) !!

Buyers who got an expensive and gaudy pile of shit will never want to admit their pile of shit doesn't smell to themselves.

i didnt care about looks. i just cared that it did the things I needed

based on your other comments, you don't appear to be all that savvy in evaluating what things on the market did the things you claim to have needed

Huh? What specific car would you recommend given the needs I stated?

I have another box on my checklist:

[x] $94K and $52K deprecation in the first 5 years.

FSD was a big draw for me. have you used the latest on hw4 cars?

As crazy as this might sound to some people these days, I actually like driving.

i do too but not when hauling kids and bikes and stuff. i'll buy a separate sports car to take on country roads or the track

The only ones I see in my zip code in Miami-Dade/Broward are (mostly) Russians who aspire to a Kardashian tank, a.k.a G-Wagon. The other ones are wrapped in "re-fi your mortgage" type of nastiness. I am terrified when I am next to one in a car or on a bike (because I know "my people").

I am not a Tesla the car hater, if only this monstrosity wasn't all sharp angles, otherwise to each their own.

A Cybertruck cannot physically fit 4 bikes, and the truck bed is not long enough to fit skis or snowboards.

When I go biking and snowboarding with my idiot friend that owns a Cybertruck, we have to use my Outback to haul the gear because it won't fit in his lemon.

yes it does. i do it. as do surfboards. you just toss it all in the back and let shit hang out.

In a real truck, the surfboards and bikes fit without having to "hang out."

The CT has less usable space than the average crossover SUV.

what!?!? you're completely wrong.

https://chatgpt.com/share/69fe71ad-7f48-83e8-8633-d628632c71...

And you def need to hang surfboards and bikes out the back in other trucks.

F150 Lightning checked all those boxes and also isn’t a complete piece of shit that sheds parts on the road.

As an owner of the f150 lightning, I get a chuckle whenever SpaceX uses them to do something a cybertruck can't.

It was pretty funny driving past the SpaceX facility in Hawthorne and seeing the F150s doing all the real work while the CTs sat to the side for press shots.

also, the lighting is discontinued

cant drive it self

Blue Cruise on the F150-Lightning is pretty capable, and it also supports a comma.ai, which is better in a practical sense than FSD.

I have a friend with a CyberBeast and a friend with an F150-Lightning. The acceleration on the CyberBeast is absolutely magnificent and FSD is very capable. However as a truck, the frunk on the F150 is way more useful. The F150 is a better truck, but I'd say the Cybertruck is really good big weird car.

also is comma.ai legit - like would you put your kids in a car driven by it? do they publish safety stats like waymo and fsd

It’s wild to me that you trust the vague bullshit safety data that Tesla puts out enough to trust your kids lives to it.

From my perspective, the only self-driving system I trust my kids with is Waymo.

for your kids safety, would you rather do 30,000 miles in HW4 FSD in a Tesla or hand driven in any other car of your choosing? doing 30K miles in a waymo isn't an option.

Driving myself. Which I do, partly because I refuse to support Musk if I can avoid it, and partly because I think their engineering is deeply unethical and unserious.

You’re avoiding the point of the question. Do you think you hand driving in any other car is safer for your kids than having fsd drive? Yes or no.

If you’re answer is fsd is safer for your kids then fine, you choose to trade off some (maybe marginal safety) in order to not support a company you don’t like. I understand that. If your answer is that hand driving is safer, then I don’t know how to convince you otherwise because having used it and seeing the published data it’s so much obviously safer than me driving. And I’ve been driving for 30+ years

I thought I was clear that I don’t trust their engineering and I don’t think their approach to safety is at all serious, but I’ll try again.

I believe I am much safer than FSD.

The vague bullshit safety “data” they release is extremely unconvincing, particularly from a company known for lying.

Is that clearer?

Yup

good way to describe it - a really good big weird car

Blue Cruise is far more upfront about its abilities than whatever deadly beta garbage Tesla keeps tossing out there.

ok so? my point was no other car can drive itself door to door, blue cruise included.

Yes, it can

no it cant

Bluecruise exists it works, it's generally safe. If you try and kick this back and say it's not Full Self Driving or comparable to Tesla, then I'm going to start posting links to videos of Tesla FSD (All generations, including latest) doing thing like ignoring school buses signs and mowing down children, turning off with no warning at highway speeds, and otherwise dangerously not-working.

You can try and claim Tesla's self-driving features are great and work 100% of the time, I suspect most people here know that is FUD and there is ample evidence that Tesla "FSD" is certainly no better than competitors and is arguably worse.

have you tried FSD and blue cruise?

no no no you have to ignore that people like the product, its more important to mock production manufacturing from the armchair.

I personally don't like the cybertruck and wish they made something much closer to Rivian, but getting upset about a product you don't like is a small man ting

This surely must be sarcasm.

Right...?

nope. i'm literally the guy the GP is referring to :)

It was never meant for construction workers. It was meant for the owners of small construction companies. I used to work for a swimming pool contractor. He didn't own a shovel. He made $600k a year. So did his plumber best friend. And his buddy that did concrete work. I actually also worked on their small time NASCAR team, since they had so much money to burn. The cyber truck is perfect for them.

A NASCAR franchise team license is $30 million, and the annual operating cost is $10 million or more (emphasis on the "or more"). If your buddies have a NASCAR team their money didn't come from their day jobs, and the CT is definitely the right truck for people born with silver spoons.

NASCAR has many levels........

I race cars, I have never seen one at the track, they’re a toy.

But you’re exactly right. They’re for the polished shoes folks, not the steel toes

If you really race cars, you'd know that most people show up in their hauler vehicle, not their work daily driver. Also, I said blue collar type business owners. They do circle track and off-road. Not road courses like tech people. A bit weird blind spot from a guy that 'races' cars.

In Minnesota they tend to be (or were) owned by companies in the construction / maintenance industry and plastered with full body advertisements for said services (not actually used by construction workers).

The Cybertruck is over 3 tons, so it's eligible for some specific tax rules that let businesses take the full depreciation immediately instead of over time. Same reason a lot of businesses used to buy Hummers and slap a decal on the side. Idk why we're incentivizing big ass vehicles that put more wear & tear on roads, but it is what it is.

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