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Comment by GorbachevyChase | Hacker News Reader

I know it’s really important to write and vocalize one’s alignment with the values of the day, but I don’t think language models being structurally incapable of offending your favorite race/ethnicity/caste should be an objective of AI labs. Language models are just systems and I’m not sure why we think users are not responsible for how they use their outputs. For the same reasons, I don’t dismiss the utility pens as a tool of “racism” because maybe somebody could write a naughty word on a bathroom stall.

You probably live somewhere where harassment is a crime, right? Probably, there are speech codes, too? Isn’t that enough? Do we really need to orient every effort of every person on earth around ethical fashions that change every few years?

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> but I don’t think language models being structurally incapable of offending your favorite race/ethnicity/caste should be an objective of AI labs.

The opposite should not be an objective either, and Elon has been very openly manipulating what grok says.

Good point.

But no one is saying "use grok".

Grok sucks. Not only because it's seemingly made only to serve the goal of ethnically cleansing non-whites or whatever, but also because it's just not even close to being as useful as other models. In human terms, grok is the job candidate who's simply not qualified. That candidate being a virulent racist is beside the material point.

Here's the thing though, the point of functional LLMs with fewer guardrails is still a good one. Grok is not that model. But such a hypothetical model would have broad application. (For good and for ill. Of course.)

I don't agree. I avoided grok because of Musk for a long time, but having used it more, I think it is one the best models around and grok.com is an extremely good chat app. My evaluation was based on trying it before gpt-5.5 and obvious before grok 4.3, but it was, for me, the 2nd best model/chat app after claude. It's much less edgelordy than you might think based on the news.

All my usage of Grok for technical topics shows it regularly deeply misunderstanding things and just parroting back my question in fancy language. It’s the only frontier model I get this impression of. That makes it super annoying when it tries to market itself as good at engineering tasks when it seems (to me) to be much worse at them.

Interesting. I have not had this experience. I would like to learn more. Can you point me to any examples or domains where I might be able to replicate this?

I was asking questions about compiler techniques. Then when I got annoyed I started asking about experimental design. Both were very frustrating experiences once I started realizing how limited its responses were.

Though yeah the edgelord-y style faded after I criticized it a couple times.

I'll take a look. Thank you!

This comment section is full of people saying "use grok"

100% being astroturfed. Way too many posts coming out of the woodwork with all of these “grok is so good at” conversational points

A job candidate being a virulent racist would not be beside the point. It would be disqualifying to even let them interview.

It's very telling how many HN posters think "being good at programming" can counterbalance "is a virulent racist"

No, it's telling that people like you have watered that word down so much that people don't trust it anymore.

So yes, if someone says "they're a great programmer, but they're racist" I'm going to ask, how are they racist? And at that point, if they can't give me a specific reason for why they're racist, I'm going to hire the guy.

It's also telling that you seem to think a tool is capable of "being racist". Hopefully this doesn't ruin your relationship with it, but LLM's cant think.

Yes, but I think that particular commenter is just throwing a bone to people that think that way so he doesn't get the "don't bring politics" treatment.

Never had a pen claim to be mecha hitler and constantly talk about white genocide for no reason but yeah great analogy

It's being biased on purpose. Musk has intervened multiple times when he believed Grok's responses were too "woke" or "leftist".

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/09/02/technology/elon-musk-grok...

In response to Grok saying that the "woke mind virus is often exaggerated" the prompt was tweaked so that Grok now says "The woke mind virus 'poses significant risks'"

If you truly believed in what your comment states then you would oppose this sort of editorializing. But somehow I doubt this is a sincere argument.

I agree with GP and I think Grok’s original response should’ve stood. What’s not sincere about, essentially, “don’t fuck with my tools”? My cordless drill didn’t come with a pamphlet about worker’s rights, and the world didn’t end.

The new response works for me, because in my mind I’ve always defined “woke mind virus” as a a mental virus which causes people to become absolutely pathologically obsessed with fighting an imaginary enemy they call “wokeness”. It’s the only definition which makes sense. “Woke” itself was never that viral.

Call it woke derangement syndrome.

People obsessed with fighting whatever they perceive as "woke" which remains ill-defined on purpose so they never have to actually formulate a rational take down beyond their emotional response

Have you ever written a comment about how any of the other LLMs are editorializing in favor of the left, and how that's a problem? Because if you have, I'd love to see the evidence of your intellectual consistency.

But something tells me you're just doing the same thing that you're calling out

> about how any of the other LLMs are editorializing in favor of the left

I’m sorry come again now. Would you possibly have some examples of this

There’s tons you just need to spend a few minutes and look. Here’s one for you—black Nazis and Asian Vikings, oh my:

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/02/22/technology/google-gemini-...

There have been numerous controversies. Asking ChatGPT if Charlie Kirk / George Floyd are good people, getting completely ass backward answers. Google refusing to generate images of white people, even to the point of making black German Nazis. Absurd biases around asking things related to Trump.

I mean this sincerely. You not knowing any of these examples is a red flag. You need to change your news source.

We don't have any proof of LLMs being editorialized in favor of the left.

We have clear proof of Grok and we also literally have a White House Executive Order mandating LLMs be editorialized to fight "woke"

Your version of reality is exactly skewed to what's actually going on.

Elon Musk has manipulated Groks outputs to target certain demographics. It is important to highlight this fact, as some people perceive the AI as an objective tool rather than a curated one.

Furthermore, I found your final paragraph unclear: are you implying that since harassment is a perennial issue, we should disregard any standards that might mitigate it?

Is it your perception that other AIs are unmanipulated? Objective rather than curated?

Did they mention another one with such a significant racism issue or are you trying to whatabout this discussion?

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