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Comment by MrFoof | Hacker News Reader

The US is a notoriously price-sensitive market. For a lot of folks, they wouldn't consider paying $1000+ for a toilet when the most basic American Standard can be found for about $125. A lot of people would find it hard to justify an order of magnitude price increase.

I know Boston has a Toto showroom in its North End, but I really cant consider it due to the rules of my apartment building.

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I bought a crazy expensive Toto when rebuilding the master bathroom because it was advertised to be quiet. Flushing sounded like you were using depth charges. A stream of plumbers, contractors, and sales reps came to look at the installation and eventually decided Toto must have changed something in that model, and swapped it for a mere mortal toilet that won't wake the entire household at night.

Maybe their brand hasn't earned enough credibility to command the prices.

According to the article, there are devices that could be attached to existing toilet seats that cost 100$ or less. If they do work well (article claims that they have good reviews), then cost is not an issue.

If you read the full article, only the cheapo, probably ineffective solutions cost $100, you're looking more at $500 and up for a good unit.

And if you want a warmer, you'll need a GFCI outlet installed next to the toilet, which most US homes do not have. You'll want a warmer in many areas of the US during the winter.

So you're looking at quite a bit of cash there.

Edit: Please read what I wrote. I'm not saying most US homes do not have a GFCI outlet, period. I'm saying most US homes do not have a GFCI outlet next to the toilet.

Think about what you're saying before commenting. Are you going to permanently run an extension cord from the toilet over to the GFCI near the sink?

Most? Maybe it's just because I live in the Northeast, but I've only very rarely seen a bathroom that did not have a GFCI outlet.

(My current apartment has four: two in the bathroom, two in the kitchen.)

That, plus they cost about $10 and can be self-installed.

And most of them are usually not near a toilet. While the parts are cheap, it's not a trivial matter to install an outlet where one hasn't been planned in a finished room.

I don't think I agree with that. Every home I've lived in has had a GFCI outlet within four feet. (Usually on the side of the sink, next to the mirror. Also usually adjacent to the toilet.)

It's part of the international, federal, and most state building codes to have GFCI in all bathrooms and kitchens (any place where there is a water fixture). You're right though that most homes do not have an outlet near the toilet.

And if you want a warmer, you'll need a GFCI outlet installed next to the toilet, which most US homes do not have.

Am I the only one here who would install it myself?

A single GFCI outlet on a circuit protects all outlets on that circuit: it will interrupt the circuit on a ground fault at any outlet wired in parallel. It is customary if not universal for the GFCI outlet to be closest to either the entrance to the room or the sink (often both). In such a case the fact that the outlet nearest the toilet doesn't appear to be a special GFCI receptacle isn't actually a problem.

Correction: a single GFCI outlet on a circuit protects all outlets on the load side of the GFCI outlet. A GFCI cannot sense a ground fault on the line side.

If you want to protect an entire circuit with one GFCI outlet, it must be the first on the circuit.

This is an important correction; I upvoted.

However, it does confirm that the normal outlet by the toilet, protected as it is by the single GFCI outlet in the restroom (assuming the electrician wasn't as foolish as I was above) doesn't need to be replaced by a new GFCI outlet in order to plug in a fancy toilet seat.

I have the cheaper, no-electricity model ($35 on Amazon) pictured in the article:

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B001KKRCFA

It gets the job done just fine — I’ve never felt the need for heated water or a blow drier. The head is spring-loaded and retracts when water pressure isn’t being applied. Happy to answer questions if, er, anyone’s curious.

Interestingly enough, they offered to ship me a second one if I wrote a review, any review, on Amazon (I did). I’m guessing they’re trying to raise awareness of these things.

Is it possible to use this without damaging the toilet or any extra issues? I'm thinking about apartment situations in particular.

Yeah, definitely. You install it between the toilet seat and the bowl and connect it to water with a tee between the supply hose and the toilet tank. No permanent changes. It should take about ten minutes to remove it and put everything back to normal.

I would love a Toto toilet... but I cannot comprehend the price. We're talking about some tubes and pipes. That's doesn't cost $1000. Why someone can't produce their $1200 washlet for $50 is beyond me.

Sounds like a good market to tackle, let us know when you're done. :)

How long does a toilet last? Ten years?

Then we are talking less than the cost of your internet connection (and we won't mention the cost of food, which is way more than that).

Well I don't think people spend enough time on the toilet to justify an extra cost (save maybe IBS and toilet readers/surfers).

And right now toilets are fully functional for most people, mine aren't uncomfortable to me and are easy to clean and most repairs can be done quite easily yourself. Adding technology to that sounds like trouble and would likely require calling out a plumber to fix things.

Ten minutes a day on the toilet is 60 hours each year. Over 80 years, that's 200 days of your life.

But we focus more on the up-front costs rather than the cumulative costs. Think about the cell phone market - how many people will be happy to get a free phone, only to be subject to $50-100 monthly bill for 2 years.

>Then we are talking less than the cost of your internet connection

Not if you consider the time value of money, which you should do when making any cost comparison.

Hey now, I'd have a Toto toilet if my apartment would let me install one. Problem is, they won't, because they don't want to deal with it when I move out.

The tank and bowl itself will last 30-40 years no problem. There are no moving parts to the porcelain.

The valves and seals may need replacing, and the bowl should be kept clean to avoid staining, but I've never heard of someone replacing the entire unit every 10 years.

In California most toilets are newer- water shortages compelled upgrades.

The problem is that most people really don't think a fancy toilet would be any better than a normal one. Maybe even worse, based on the fancy and expensive low-flow toilets they've seen that don't work well. It's not a "pain point". So why would you spend any money on it at all?

That's mostly irrelevant. What you have to consider is the opportunity costs of forgoing food or internet compared the opportunity cost of settling for an 'old-fashioned' toilet. For me, at least, the former are much cheaper.

You can say that about almost anything, then. Your bedroom door: why not throw a thousand at it? You open and close it frequently, and that tiny squeak is ever so annoying. If you greased the hinge it would go away for a few months, but still, how long does a door last? Ten years?

Now substitute toilet for door, and wiping for greasing. Or sink, and running out of room or not having the nozzle high enough or having scratches. Do this a couple times and congrats, you've just paid enough for most Americans to buy a car - which is more important?

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