Comment by glerk | Hacker News Reader

Comment by glerk | Hacker News Reader

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I got 4h of sleep last night which is about my normal average at this time of the year, and I have 0 regrets about it. I also don't sleep at a regular time every day. If I have no other obligations, I naturally let it shift forward (what the article calls "delayed sleep phase"). I am most unhappy when I HAVE TO use an alarm clock and break my own patterns. Last night, I naturally went to sleep right before sunrise and I woke up 4 hours later.

To pre-empt a few objections: I did not need an alarm clock to wake up. I am not taking heavy stimulants other than caffeine at this time. I am not stressed. I am not unhappy. I don't have memory issues (in fact, I am cursed with a very good memory and it is usually harder for me to forget than to remember). I can score above the Mensa bar on an IQ test. I can take an interview. I can give a demo. I can run 10km. I do not have "bipolar disorder" or any such nonsense. I don't need medication. I don't need therapy. I don't need a better mattress. I'm not already in a mental asylum. I'm married with kids, I work a high-paying job, I give to charity and I pay my taxes. In fact, today is tax day, I should probably take care of that instead of getting upset at hacker news comments.

I would suggest looking into the medical research on the downsides of getting little sleep. After a single night of low sleep (and 4 hours is low), even though you'll feel fine, your body will not process a lot of things the way it normally should (e.g. insulin response is significantly degraded).

Over time, it supposedly significantly increases the likelihood of certain diseases/conditions.

Peter Attia was one of those people who got by with little sleep, and for years, well into his medical career, was dismissive of those who preached the importance of 8 hours of sleep a day. He then looked into the research, and completely changed his mind:

https://peterattiamd.com/category/sleep/

When I was looking into the dual n back stuff a while back, I remember reading one report where the person would feel subjectively fine when sleep deprived, but his nback score would go way down.

In other words it's possible to "feel fine" on little sleep and yet be significantly cognitively impaired. Worth measuring that, if possible.

(It might have been Gwern, he's got a big page on the subject.)

I am not dismissing the research and I am well aware there are tradeoffs. I am aware that low sleep puts extra strain on the brain and the body at large. I am aware of the increased inflammation, decreased CSF draining, cardiovascular issues, appetite issues, insulin tolerance etc. etc. I know that our bodies were optimized by evolution to function better with sleep cycles synced with circadian cycles, and I know that many of these very well optimized processes are put under stress when you sleep less than 6h per night.

Here's the thing: say what I have is a "disease" and currently, the best cure for this disease is a pill that would slow down my thoughts and make me into a bland emotionless vegetable during my waking hours in addition to reducing the amount of waking hours that I get to enjoy. Even if that magic pill buys me 20 extra years of old age at the tail end of my life, is it rational for me to take it in my early 30s?

0 regrets now doesn't mean 0 regrets decades later.

That's totally fair, and I'll cross that bridge when I get there like everyone else :)

My philosophy is: either I'll live to benefit from technology that can repair the damage caused by aging, in which case health micro-optimizations early in life are not that important, OR this won't be achieved within my lifetime, in which case I prefer a short life with concentrated happiness, vitality and intensity in my youth.

There is some new scientific finding that in deep sleep, fluids from the brain drain out and if that flushing doesn't happen, it might lead to Alzheimer's disease.

You should at least monitor your deep sleep using a smartwatch. Less than 1.5 hours and I would be worried.

Thanks, I am aware of reduced cerebrospinal fluid flushing as well as the increased neural inflammation in general and I am trying to compensate for that as best as I can.

I am not too worried about Alzheimer's as it tends to start pretty late in life (I think average onset is around mid-60s?). If I get that and we don't have a reliable cure by then, I wouldn't really mind ending it quickly after getting the diagnosis. I'm a bit more worried about heart disease as that tends to hit earlier.

I believe you, but if you are ever in a position of authority, please don't expect anyone else to function well on 4 hours of sleep.

You are at one edge of the gaussian curve of the sleep requirements of the human species. The problem is that many think they belong there, but are not. Enjoy what you have and let the haters hate.

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