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Comment by elAhmo | Hacker News Reader

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Don’t comment if you don’t want to actually contribute. How are people supposed to know these things before buying the equipment. What if they’re the only provider in their region? There’s a billion reasons why your comment doesn’t contribute.

"Don't buy their stuff" is exactly the right answer. You need to do your research before you buy big ticket items. It may not be true in every sector, but Deere has plenty of competition.

No, that's not the answer. It only applies to those people who have time and energy to spare to do that reasearch. I'm not talking just farming equipment, but ordinary items such as a vacuum cleaner or printer.

If you're low income, work 2 jobs, single parent, get home at 23:00 broken tired, want a meal but your fridge just broke down and everything is spoiled inside, you don't spend 2 more hours doing reasearch. You clean it, go to bed hungry, call repair in the morning (optional, if your hopes are high), and when they tell you it's not repairable, you get the first new fridge you can afford in a 10 min online search while on the bus/train/tram being late to work.

Reasearch, self-repair, is for wealthy people.

Self-repair is an average day on a farm. A farmer that does not research equipment they about to purchase, especially before spending a small fortune, is a fool.

That's like saying you don't bother learning what illnesses your animals or crops may contract, and how to prevent/cure them, because you're not wealthy. Buying a book and reading it, to the improve your abilities, is time well spent.

Most maintenance on a tractor is not major, and require basic skill and parts. It's the companies that don't want this, they want specialized technicians to come out to replace an oil filter.

I have a 30 year old vacuum cleaner, which I continue to maintain, which mostly amounts to stripping it once every 10 years and cleaning out all the filters that caked up with fine dust. Definitely cheaper to strip it myself one evening, than to pay someone to do it, or purchase a new one. It is like an hour of work for years of service.

It takes twenty minutes to figure out what other people are saying about a product. And even if you don't have time to do research, you develop a feeling for brands over time. I would never buy a lawn mower from Deere, not because this or that lawnmower is a known bad item, but because the company has had a bad reputation for decades.

A tractor can be almost a million dollar item now, and nobody spending a million dollars should be doing so without doing some research.

This 100%. I live rural and my water pump broke. No water means no showers, no dishwasher, no washing machine, and everyone in the family being uncomfortable. Realistically you get whatever the plumbing place has in stock and knows how to install - even if it's not technically the best one for the site.

Do you seriously expect other companies not following suit? People need lawnmowers, so this can quickly turn into the same situation we have with the inkjet printer market.

Yes, I expect that. Low sales will concentrate the mind.

Please tell us - if you were buying one of these, would you specifically research how the fuel gauge works? Be honest.

Of course not. But I would definitely find out what kind of problems people are having.

So the customer is 100% to blame then?

How can you do research without victims complaining?

Why wouldn't victims complain?

Because when they do, they receive snide remarks like "just don't buy their stuff then".

Nobody is saying you can't relate your experience with this equipment. What we're saying is consumer action is enough to solve this problem. It just takes some time.

There's a certain type of customer that wants the dealer to handle parts and repair. But those guys aren't the lawn mower segment.

> What we're saying is consumer action is enough to solve this problem.

Citation needed

Might be hard for them to do that given this lawsuit is hard proof that it isn't true.

Is it? You've never been to a grocery store?

I have not been to a grocery store that sells "Deere-brand Large Ag Equipment"[0] - aka $200k-1M John Deere tractors/harvesters/combines - that are the subject of the settlement. Have you?

[0]: https://www.agri-pulse.com/ext/resources/pdfs/gov.uscourts.i...

My point is "competition works".

You're posting in a thread discussing news of a legal outcome that showed that free market competition did not prevent anti-competitive practices and instead required legal/regulatory intervention to solve.

To say that these are "anti-competitive practices" is stretching the phrase beyond all meaning. If you don't like Deere's policies, you can always buy from Case IH or New Holland. There is plenty of competition in farm equipment.

Most can't "always" immediately replace an incredibly expensive business asset that is only retroactively discovered to have been sold under deceptive terms. The free market works well in many instances, but it needs checks to ensure that it remains truly free and not captured by fraudulent actors that harm consumers and society at large.

John Deere has had a terrible reputation for over a decade now. They've always used proprietary parts for the tractors. Do 5 minutes of research.

Well.. farming equipment are high 6 figures 7 pieces of business equipment (the lifetime operating costs are definitely in the 7 figures.) These are owned and operated by people who I would expect to do this type of research and critical thinking. These aren't normie consumers buying everyday appliances or electronics.

However.. farmers are a weird bunch and they are blinded by brand loyalty or will only buy from an "American" company which ironically allowed JD to stomp all over them because of their dominant market position.

I'm no farmer, but brand loyalty might have practical reasons, such as compatibility with attached farming equipment (plows?).

The attachment mechanism is usually standardized, so you can just switch between brands.

Nowadays a larger factor might be how close the next dealership/repair shop is. Some things are time critical, and when it breaks in this time, then you don't want to drive hours to have it fixed/get a part/ have a mechanic available.

There are some differences between the brands... And you can always be Clarkson and get a Lamborghini, even when it makes no sense ;-)

do your research before buying, they have this reputation ofr many years

it's like complaining about HP ink printer everyone was warning about for last 10-15 years at least

same should apply to Samsung TVs at least in the last 5-10 years

>How are people supposed to know these things before buying the equipment.

By looking at reviews or paying someone to evaluate the product.

>What if they’re the only provider in their region

Then there is an opportunity for competition. Or you can import a product from another region.

As an outsider, that’s literally what I’m doing: paying attention to the reviews. And some people are telling the reviewer to shut up and quit whining, thus encouraging them not to leave the review that I want to be reading.

Make up your mind. Do you want people to read and write reviews, or don’t you?

All great in theory, but in importing farm machinery, you need to take into account servicing options and warranty claims. Would be painful if you need to truck a harvester or even mower interstate for a warranty claim.

And it's not like these things are always available from a source with reviews. Reviews for new models are less likely to cover repair-access issues that will arise in a few years' time.

bruh dont sweat it. mainly everyone here is SF tech bros who have never worked a hard day in their life lol

What would you say if every manufacturer did this? Build your own? Further, you can't blame a person for not knowing that a machine has these planned obsolescence traps or repair-hostile traps: the manufacturer does not tell you the costs he has hidden. Further, this shouldn't be legal: it's little more than swindling.

Under that logic we don’t need any consumer protection laws.

Undoubtedly the poster to whom you're replying unironically agrees.

You're getting downvoted, but this is really the only answer here. Companies won't stop acting this way as long as their shitty behavior is rewarded, and people keep rewarding their shitty behavior.

No amount of legislation is going to prevent them from doing this. This settlement even proves that they can keep doing it with impunity!

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