It's perfectly reasonable to not want unrestricted journalists leaking information about military assets, or possibly getting themselves killed. Most people seem to understand (or at least not care) when Ukraine imposes press restrictions. The question should be, why are people suddenly outraged when Israel does roughly the same thing?
How many journalists does Israel allow in Gaza, anywhere in Gaza? The answer is 0. Worse still is that they appear to directly target journalists for elimination, as became evident when they shot a rocket at a building stairwell that contained only journalists trying to transmit video and then shot a second rocket at the exact same location shortly after to kill any first responders. The entire event, both rocket attacks, was caught on video that made it out of the enclave.
There are journalists operating in Ukraine, but they're either
- embedded/escorted (IDF did a bit of that also)
- in safe ("green") areas far away from fighting (Gaza is too small to really have those; Ukraine is ~1650x larger)
- or just ignoring the laws, and illegally reporting from dangerous yellow or red zones
I skimmed Wikipedia [1] but couldn't find any mention of laws in Ukraine that forbid reporting from certain areas. I see laws forbidding statements of support for Russia, and laws enabling censorship. Maybe I've misunderstood: are you referring to anti-trespassing laws in general, and not specifically about reporters?
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_the_press_in_Ukrain...
> The rules bar journalists from working in so-called “red zones” deemed most dangerous, and require a military press officer’s escort to work in less dangerous yellow zones. Journalists can work freely in green zones.
Not sure if I understand it correctly, are you saying:
1. western countries bomb civilians, kill them, put them in jail without court, have ethnonationalistic racist state where some races has more rights and others have less, steal land from others, bomb neighbours because someone is hiding there, ignite wars, lobby/bribe powerful country politicians to reach their own goals
or
2. are you saying Israel didn't commit any of this?
Sir, have you read about Western countries' imperial and colonial past, even over the last century alone? What about just the last 2 years, as they stood by Israel in every meaningful way while from time to time 'expressing concern' and issuing statements that 'international law must be respected' as the hypocrites that they are? The original commenter was correct: Israel fits right in.
I understand that appealing to myths of noble intentions of western populations is ultimately a good thing if it gets them to act more like it, but a part of me can't resist pointing out that it's just a myth and it's never been anything other than 'might makes right'. I agree with your goal, just please don't frame it as if western countries are these beacons of morality when they're anything but.
The person you are responding to was saying that for that to be true (Israel = civilized western nation) that either it is civilized to do all those awful things or that Israel is not doing those things.
Obviously, both are false. So you are responding to someone who agrees with you all the way.
what do you mean "put in jail without court"? give me examples
whaat is the problem with having an ethnonationalistic racist state? and also, arabs have the same rights as jews in israel, because israel is a civilised western country where the law has power.
>lobby/bribe powerful country politicians to reach their own goals yes, they do this. and who is to blame? you, who elected the said politicians, and allowed it to happen, or israel, that utilized its power to achieve its goals? i don't support israel lobbying, and i wish it didn't happen, but everyone is so easyly fooled, and it is so obvious, that we can no longer say it's israels fault. it's the west who has to do something about it.
> 2. are you saying Israel didn't commit any of this? some of the things they didn't comming, some things that did commit and it is not a problem as you present it, and some things they did comming, which indeed as a problem. but there's no perfect state.
i hate israel, but definitely not because it bombs hamas terrorists.
And Israel definitely conducts very questionable actions, similar to genocide, such as withholding any humanitarian aid for months, and them distributing it only through one controlled organisation, that distributed it in just a few spots, with machine guns pointed at people. Thats one of the main reasons Netanyahu is wanted by ICC.
This is all not mentioning actions in the West Bank, where settlers with army support drive people away from their homes, destroy and take over the land. This is not what a “civilised” nation does.
Well, it's certainly not limited to bodies that were confirmed by officials in a hospital or morgue. A lot of the casualty reports were from a Google form, or later, a self-hosted form (https://sehatty.ps/moh-registration/public/add-order).
Yes it is. Literally on that form "Not registered with the Palestinian Ministry of Health". This is a form to report missing people, the number of the dead are people identified by a doctor.
Though that number has stagnated because all the hospitals have been destroyed by Israel.
Hamas' casualty numbers came from hospitals and morgues only in the first few months of war; that hasn't been the case for a long time. This isn't controversial - Hamas has been fairly open about incorporating "reliable media sources".
I think only Hamas knows the breakdown for their latest numbers, but earlier they used to acknowledge how many casualty reports were based on online form submissions. For example you can see some old data in Figure 11b here: https://www.washingtoninstitute.org/sites/default/files/pdf/...
Basically all his reports have one narrative "It's not that bad, and actually it is all terrorists that Israel has killed".
NGOs that have managed to get aid workers and doctors in (which, btw, are often killed by Israel) all say that the death toll is a massive undercount. [1]
There, of course, is a solution here. It's for Israel to let in aid works and stop killing them [2]
[1] https://www.france24.com/en/middle-east/20240711-more-than-1...
Sky News: "A total of 6,187 deaths had been confirmed via the online form as of 6 August." https://news.sky.com/story/gaza-conflict-thousands-remain-un...
AP: "As Gaza’s hospital system collapsed in December and January, the ministry began relying on hard-to-verify “media reports” to register new deaths. Its March report included 531 individuals who were counted twice, and many deaths were self-reported by families, instead of health officials." https://apnews.com/article/israel-palestinians-hamas-war-cas...
Hamas themselves: https://t.me/s/MOHMediaGaza?before=6390
"Civilization" measured by prisoners sodomized with cutting objects or starved to death? And where does "country" give place to illegal occupation?
> who does not commit genocides for the sake of it.
But because God supposedly told them so, which should bring comfort to every "Amalek" out there.
Nearly every genocide starts with "we're civilized. That means we're doing the right thing. Some casualties are unavoidable" When someone thinks like that, you know they're doing the wrong thing. You know you cannot trust them. You cannot reason with them because they refuse to see their actions objectively and have ceased to see others as equal to themselves.