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Comment by guywithahat | Hacker News Reader

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Guess where the midlle-east mass migration comes from? Surely not from the US bombing the everliving shit out of folks living there and leaving us to deal with the fallout?

The only thing the US shows Europe is a cautionary tale of social decay and the consequences of letting Capital run their society.

I think it comes from the fact that Europe is a richer and better run society than the middle east is, along with modernity making it cheap and easy for people from the 3rd world to travel to rich western countries.

I mean, y'all gotta own the mess in the middle east too. That's far from a US solo production.

The latest mess is all on the Americans. But yes, the French were also not without blame.

When? The French are to blame for Algeria an most of Africa, but Lebanon is the ex-french colony that suffered the less from French rule, and used to be a perfect example of multiculturalism before a nearby rogue state started putting their greasy hands everywhere.

Unless you talk about Lybia, but that's not ME (and yes, 80% of the French)

> they're considerably freer and richer than the EU

Freer to bend over for ICE thugs, or is there some other definition of freedom that you’ve meant?

> especially when Europe is currently fighting a war in Ukraine

Ukraine is fighting war in Ukraine with financial support of Europe. Big difference.

> and struggling to handle mass middle-east immigration

Caused by US bombing.

Not Assad gassing his own people with chemical weapons with support of Russia?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_intervention_in_the_Sy...

Syria isn't part of Europe.

that’s the level of discussion here now. two comments up – "mass middle-east immigration".

Oh! From the lack of quotations I assumed you were replying to

  Freer to bend over for ICE thugs, or is there some other definition of freedom that you’ve meant?

not

  Caused by US bombing.

For Syria, my understanding is that there was a lot of bad intervention from a lot of different external actors, all of whom can independently take blame: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_intervention_in_...

just that some interventions were attempting to liberate people from dictators using chemical weapons against its own citizens, and some were supporting these dictators.

A country can be your largest trading partner and single biggest threat to sovereignty at the same time. Just ask Canadians.

I also take issue with the claim that Americans are freer or richer. The Iranian adventure, even were it to end immediately, has taken socialized medicine off the table for another generation of Americans, leaving typical Americans a lot poorer than salaries suggest. A ground invasion could easily bankrupt the U.S.. Meanwhile, Trump is trying to operate as a pre-Magna Carta king and the courts charged with stopping him are rapidly crumbling under pressure. This is a serious backslide into authoritarianism.

The irony about tRump is he sometimes says the quiet part out loud. He is a pathological liar yet at the same time he speaks truth. He revealed the USA's ruling Elite's desire to make Canada a vassal state. Arguably, the Canadian Elite did it when Brian Mulroney, (he was originally against it himself but the Business lobby told him otherwise: he dutifully complied with his donors), pushed and signed the free trade agreement: "I'm rolling the dice!". He was persuaded to put the decision to an election first. He won the majority of seats, but not the popular vote. He signed it anyway. Now, Canada finds itself in the position that his opposition warned about: that putting your eggs in one basket was taking a big risk that US wasn't going to be ruled by a Fascist Dictator.

But thanks to the Fascist Dictator Canadians have once again woken up to the folly of tying yourself so closely to a giant who goes rogue. The Republican Party should be deeply ashamed of themselves for kowtowing to tRump. Mind you, there is plenty of things the Republican Party should be ashamed about - they helped create the situation that would make the election of tRump possible - with their poverty inducing policies. The Republican Party is as loathsome as the Nazi Party.

And then there is the feckless Democrats. Absolutely useless.

Who do you think caused that mass immigration?

Most recently Russia and Iran's Hezbollah in Syria, and Yemen's civil war involving Iran's Houthis and Egypt/Saudi Arabia. The US was involved in the Syrian civil war but not responsible for most of the civilian destruction. People outside the region have this childish understanding of the ME where Iraq is the only thing that happened (conveniently also forgetting the much more brutal Iran-Iraq war).

And to further your point mass immigration into Europe isn't just recent; it's been happening for decades. For a while the Islamic state was encouraging attacks in Europe, and hundreds of people were killed by jihadists running cars through Christmas parades and similar events which peaked ~2016 and 2017. I think the largest was an attack in Nice, France on Bastille day killing 86 and injuring hundreds (https://grokipedia.com/page/2016_Nice_truck_attack) and another famous one I can think of was the christmas market attack in Berlin, killing 12 and injuring 56 (https://grokipedia.com/page/2016_Berlin_truck_attack). These were the result of economic immigration, unrelated to anything specific the US had done.

Where did the Islamic State come from?

The power vacuum after the US messed up Iraq and Syria. Every single wave of mass migration towards Europe is the direct result of the US choosing to bomb the Middle East. That's also part of why this time around, everybody's quite this annoyed at America.

Also please, use serious sources.

> It's incredible how social media addiction warps peoples minds

The most prominent victim of this appears to be the US president himself.

Have you missed the events of the past year under Trump? With literal claims of taking over EU territory?

I know that Trump is the equivalent of a hallucinating LLM, but you can’t just ignore his words whenever convenient.

> considerably freer and richer than the EU

Cope harder. The US doesn't offer a single example of being better than the EU.

It's always better to back up ones arguments with facts.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Economist_Democracy_Index

The USA really hasn't been doing well lately.

That's just a small part of it. EU has a better quality of life, better food, better housing, better public infrastructure.

At least the US still has energy infrastructure, while the EU is forced to financially support Dictators in Tehran and Moscow to keep their economy from collapsing.

Oil is (close to) fungible, which means the higher prices in US fuel pumps are just as much financially supporting dictators in Tehran and Moscow as EU fuel pumps.

Ironically, the "close to" part is just enough to prevent the USA from isolating itself from the world market by refining and using what it currently exports.

Pretty sure the US does not buy energy from natural gas pipelines to Russia, neither are we shutting down all of our Nuclear Power Plants (like Germany) because it's green to import more gas ?

As an American I couldn't tell you what their logic is exactly.

> Pretty sure the US does not buy energy from natural gas pipelines to Russia, neither are we shutting down all of our Nuclear Power Plants (like Germany) because it's green to import more gas ?

Irrelevant. Natural gas isn't the only fossil fuel, the US trades oil on the global market, that oil trade cannot help but support all other petrostates.

Also, if you're talking about Germany in particular, renewables have significantly exceeded the peak share of nuclear power: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Datei:StromerzeugungDeutschlan...

(Kernenergie == nuclear)

To use the table that the chart is supposed to be based on, the peak of nuclear production in Germany was only about 60% of 2025's renewables, 284.6 TWh renewables in 2025 vs 169.6 TWh nuclear in 2000: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stromerzeugung_in_Deutschland

This article is literally about Europe rapidly building out its sovereign energy infrastructure?

Didn't trump remove sanctions to russia?

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