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I was staunchly against the Iraq war, but even when Bush was president I didn't let it compromise my patriotism.
The amount of people on here who ignore the fact that Iran was the primary enabler of Hamas' attack on 10/7/23, and therefore sowed the seeds of the destruction of Gaza, is insane. Basically, if Trump does a thing, they are against it, independent of the thing. There is no principle, just reactionary hatred. If Biden had launched this war, none of these people would have had a problem with it. I am 100% positive on that assumption.
Because on top of doing terrible things, the non-terrible things he does, he does incredibly badly.
> There is no principle, just reactionary hatred.
No, we’re all good little Bayesians around here.
> If Biden had launched this war, none of these people would have had a problem with it.
You’re really missing what’s going on here. The reason that people liked Biden is that he would not have launched this war.
No, they liked him because he wasn’t Trump. And then they liked Trump more after having him.
And it only cost them their country. Not bad!
I think you're wrong here. As a Biden stan who's gone to the mat debating Biden's policies here on HN many times in the past, he lost pretty much all of the remaining good will he had by defending and supporting Israel for so long after it became clear what they were doing in Gaza. Biden wouldn't be getting a free pass in the Middle East if it were helping Israel's goals (ignoring the fact that Biden is much more of a dove than Trump).
Yes, I am “reactively” hating our president for starting wars without congressional approval and with very handwavy explanations. Besides, he has a track record for saying whatever the fuck he wants if he thinks people will like it, so you can’t trust the words from his mouth anyways. It’s pretty infuriating, actually.
I would be much happier if there was a clear justification and rational explanation for the president starting more wars in the Middle East. And yes, because Biden has a slightly better baseline of not telling bold-faced lies, I could see more people giving the benefit of the doubt at first. But overall, liberals did not like Biden very much. Trump, on the other hand, has a pretty hardcore base of people who don’t seem to care what he says or that he does/says the opposite of what he used to say. Pretty weird.
By the way, this opinion is not formed by reading or listening to any kind of mainstream media. It’s formed from listening to the words coming out of Trump’s mouth for the past fucking decade.
Chanting for death to any country or religion is not violence dude. Until and actually Iran launches an attack on the USA.
Iran didn't start this war, America and Israel did, while right in the middle of a pretend negotiation with them.
I believe this is a strong sign that any time Israel or America are asking to negotiate with any country, they should prepare a full scale military action ready for the real "negotiation".
edit: Are you a dual citizen? Everyone has a right to free speech of course and to support or not support any country or cause. But if you feel so strongly about a foreign country, why don't you be honest with yourself and pick a lane. I say this to everyone, not just Israeli, but Chinese, Dutch, any other dual citizens.
Arming the Huthis, Hezbollah, Hamas, and various Iraqi militias _is_ violence. When an aggressor with a history of violence says that they are coming for you next, it is prudent to believe them. Iran has been chanting Death To America and Death To Israel for decades. They have been attacking Israel and are developing technology to attack the United States. It is the United States' responsibility to ensure that the attack will not come.
Claiming that Iran is not violent is a lie. Promoting the idea that the US should wait to be attacked first is a nice way to allow Iran to arm properly and ensure US interests are sufficiently harmed.
It was a really massive thing.
or the Mujahiddeen.
Oh look, the list is so long there's an entire article about it, fun:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_and_state-sponso...
So tell me, if Israel is justified in invading Iran due to alleged proxies of Iran attacking them, would you agree that all these countries should invade the United States?
The Contras were anti-Marxist central American revolutionaries, yes? The Marxists overthrew the president of Nicaragua, and the US supported them, along with other nations. Israel is mentioned as being an ally, but is not mentioned in any other capacity in the article. The US was funding them with arms sold to Iran, in the hope that Iran would pressure Hezbollah to release American hostages. The Contras were found to be terrorists, that the CIA claimed were due to poor discipline, and then the Contra leader was executed.
Did I get that right? Seriously fill in the blanks for me, the Wikipedia page seems written for somebody who already knows the story. I also read part of the linked Iran-Contra page hoping it would shed some light.
Serious question. I don't see any evidence they did.
And I have given a much longer list than just the contras, where you can't even hide behind "but the origins were noble", they supported already terroristic entities.
And yes, of course, when we study e.g. the German genocide of Jews we ask about intent. The Yad Vashem museum is all about examining the intent - you should go visit. One of the first exhibits is a Deutschmark restamped with a higher denomination, demonstrating the unbearable inflation that the German people were suffering prior to WWII. And the reasons for that suffering are explained as well. As I remember it, the major contributor was the Treaty Of Versailles, which mandated far too heavy war reparations against Germany.
And regarding the Soviets, are you joking? Yes, of course the reasons are discussed. How else does anybody learn a lesson? Have you seriously not studied history at all, to insinuate that one does not ask why?
By what conceivable measure do you think Israel started it?