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Comment by fusslo | Hacker News Reader

I wonder why the commenter discounts the idea that they were used to store things. Especially since the article gives evidence that things were stored in the holes:

"Hole soil analysis also found ancient pollens of maize – a key staple in the Andes – and reeds traditionally used for basket-making. In addition to this, there were traces of squash, amaranth, cotton, chili peppers and other crops that haven't been farmed on the arid land where Monte Sierpe sits. Because many of these plants produce little airborne pollen, it's unlikely they settled in the holes naturally."

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Yeah, they're just assuming that if you wanted to store something you'd store it at the bottom of the hill.

While I'm no archeologist/anthropologist, I have seen an ancient grainery near the green river in Utah. It was about an hour long very steep half hike half rock scramble to get up to the ledge where it was at.

So maybe ancient people had reasons to put storage sites in more difficult to access locations.

It’s actually pretty common to store food at higher elevations in the historical and archaeological record, including among the Incas (but mostly in qollqas). More wind at higher elevations means less moisture, which is the biggest factor in preservation. There are plenty of examples from every era, stretching from ancient Minoans to 20th century Berbers.

> Especially since the article gives evidence that things were stored in the holes

They explain it as these holes are at the top of the mountain. Why climb the large mountain to store your grain there just to have haul it back down later? My own guess answers: safer from animals, precipitation, safe from enemies.

Storing in general could mean different things: putting baskets with grain and produce there for a minute and them someone else immediately pick it up in some bartering exchange, it's not really storing then, I guess? Or, even religious offerings can also be explained as "storing" -- they are stored in there until the "gods" (i.e. elements) destroy them (i.e. consume them) and the gods are appeased, that way ensuring good harvests and other benefits.

>Why climb the large mountain to store your grain there just to have haul it back down later?

Yes and after going on a trip to Machu Picchu a few years ago, the locals don't seem to feel gravity quite the same way most of us do these days. There was a gal on our 4 day hike that got hit pretty hard with altitude sickness a day in. A local porter about her size carried her on his shoulders for the rest of the trip, in flip flops, and the only reason he stayed back with our slow asses was so she could talk to her husband along the way.

It's the most visceral experience I've had in the levels upon levels of human capability. Really wild to see in person.

Also Peru is phenomenal.

High and dry, a good place for preservation of organic material. Maybe the holes were simply to get out of the wind.

New idea: this looks the the holes on the surface of a golf ball. Maybe this was an attempt to alter the wind as it crested the hill? Would a strong wind perhaps even whistle as it passed over these holes?

That's within the range you can acclimate to. They don't feel the altitude like we do.

I've made an attempt on Kilimanjaro. We ascended the first three days with porters but no guides. Our guides met us at that camp, they had come up in one day--they did it all the time, going from the surround to the summit in one day was possible and safe. For us--out of the question. The expected outcome would be unconsciousness before reaching the summit.

If you went up and down Machu Picchu every day for years, I bet you'd perform like the porter.

Genetics probably play a big role in the necessary adaptations beyond a certain point.

From a pure endurance sports point of view, natural ability of latin americans in altitude has been successfully reached by other athletes through altitude training camps, tents simulating altitude and drugs (epo,...).

I mean it can certainly help, but this is still well within an average human's range of adaptability. Building up new muscle "easily" (and also atrophying muscle when it isn't used) is one of human kind's super powers in the animal kingdom.

You aren't going to run into any real significant physical limits from your genes until you are pushing beyond what the top 1% of other humans can do, and being able to run up and down mountains all day isn't something only a portion of the locals could hope to achieve, native to the area or not, they just gotta do it for long enough.

Perhaps. The Sherpas, too.

Could also be a form of refrigeration if crops were grown in the valley but benefited by cooler temp storage at higher altitudes

Likewise it could have been snow/ice farming to have it available into the summer.

Not sure what the weather was like here that long ago but it’s another angle to explore.

My first explanation would be offerings. The rarity of those crops in the area would mean they were more valuable and therefor likely to be used as offerings.

edit: Or heck, maybe they wanted to keep it away from wildlife or invaders.

This is just a little strange to me. Pollen is produced at the flowering stage, not the growing and harvesting stages, months later. While there may be pollen on a grown ear of corn, it would be there for the same reason that it is everywhere else, because it is airborne and somewhat durable?

Why wouldn't you spread out, though, instead of working in basically a line? (At least, as much as topography reasonably allows.) That way, your travel distance to any particular item increases at like sqrt(stuff), instead of just linearly.

yeah, I've been thinking about that since I read the article!

I'm wondering if the line goes along the crest of the hill, so it's basically as wide as the crest is. But there's still, why 7-8 holes wide, and why are there some groups... lots of questions to think about!

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