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Comment by bilekas | Hacker News Reader

Ughh.. I recently turned on my 1000EUR+ LG Oled TV to find that it had automatically installed a Copilot app.. And keeps doing it every few days.

Is there any smart TV that I can actually just use a TV how I want? Or am I reduced to buying an Apple TV device and unplugging the TV from the internet entirely ?

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Right, never give a TV internet access now. That's where we are.

This means they can't surveil, brick, or change your hardware after you bought it.

So yes, then add whatever dongles to provide content. If the dongle turns bad (evil), chuck it and get a different kind. You preserve your privacy, hardware ownership rights, and freedom to choose.

> This means they can't surveil, brick, or change your hardware after you bought it.

They can however continuously display 'NO NETWORK' popups until you give the device the access it wants. Of course, only after it's been active a while and the return window is closed.

One of the main aims of 5G rollout was for the eventual inclusion of sims in these devices

For 5G enabled devices the medicine is to cut the antenna off

I'll believe it when I see it. The numbers simply don't pencil out. Streaming ads over cellular networks is going to be insanely expensive at rates that IOT/esim providers are currently offering. Not to mention that most people would connect to wifi anyways so they can watch neflix or whatever without a second device. If a 5G module costs $25 but only 10% of people actually never connect to wifi, you're basically paying $250 just to get that incremental customer connected.

Not for ads, but maybe the numbers work out if you're selling intel. How much is a household's watching habits worth on the market? How about keyword mentions in the room?

> an Apple TV device and unplugging the TV from the internet entirely

Had this setup on different tvs for 10+ years, can confirm it is excellent.

I guess it's a matter of time until TVs include GSM modem for ads and DRM.

Cars already do, and the solution is to remove the modem.

If a car is equipped with 'eCall' from the factory in the EU a missing modem is seen as a safety defect and fails the yearly inspection which is required for road use.

Protection of one's attention is our generation's luxury product.

Whether it's the TV hardware or the streaming service in your house, your standard of living is now judged by whether you pay extra for the ad-free tier.

Apple tends to skew luxury purchase, so it makes sense it hasn't been riddled with adware yet. The Apple logo is a status symbol that you're not being bombarded with ads in every corner of underutilized screen real-estate.

One workaround is to buy a computer monitor and use that instead. Most of those are still pretty dumb HDMI or USB terminals that you can plug any signal source into. They don't come in huge sizes like TVs (although search "digital signage" for some options), and you'll need a dedicated sound speaker system, but this route could be an option.

> Is there any smart TV that I can actually just use a TV how I want?

I’ve heard that large computer monitors and TVs intended to be used as displays can be used without connecting them to a network.

> Or am I reduced to buying an Apple TV device and unplugging the TV from the internet entirely ?

An Apple TV is a good choice even otherwise. I’ve never seen a smoother and quicker interface on a native Smart TV (granted that I’ve only seen Android and webOS). I use my Apple TV as the only network connected device while my TV is not connected to any network ever. Once in a while, I update the TV’s firmware by downloading it to a thumb drive and plugging that into the USB port of the TV.

Better yet, use a Linux HTPC. The Apple TV box is comically restricted. For example, because there is no web browser, there is no straightforward way to watch YouTube ad-free on it.

A Shield is the better choice because you can install apps that Apple would never approve of.

But the Nvidia Shield has (or had?) ads from Google, right? I recall there was news coverage and some uproar when this happened a few years ago.

The default Google launcher is a disgusting mess. But since it is an Android, you do not have to use it and can use one of the many ad free ones. I use Projectivy

> Or am I reduced to buying an Apple TV device and unplugging the TV from the internet entirely ?

At least until TV makers wise up to that strategy and build a TV that requires internet access to unlock the HDMI port, that's the way to go.

I don't have a reference, but I remember reading that some Samsung TVs require internet access to get past initial setup and allow access to HDMI. So we might already be here..

>Or am I reduced to buying an Apple TV device and unplugging the TV from the internet entirely?

Why would this be something that you're "reduced" to? Why would it be a bad thing?

It kind of defeats the initial purpose of buying a smart tv though. I wanted to avoid having an extra peripheral for connectivity.

No such device exists, though. All smart TVs are as user hostile as manufacturers believe they can get away with. If they could make them worse for the user, they would. They're just pushing the boundaries as far as they can.

Alternatively, dns block the update domains, wait a few months to few years for someone to discover an exploit for rooting, root and sideload.

What happens when they move from default dns to ech with pinned dns servers? I was reading about ech a bit yesterday so I could keep up with apps trying to circumvent dns filtering on my kids' devices.

Usually I require a root cert so devices can have their traffic inspected or be isolated into an unsafe network where most nonessential traffic is blocked by default. I suppose letting an iot device connect will become more risky in the future when I can't control the dns resolver or can't confidently block requests through dns alone.

I bought a Sony Android TV a few years back which has yet to be enshitified - doesn't shove ads or shovelware down my throat, acts like a TV. It's a model made for the Japanese market though and they may have incentives to play nice with domestic customers.

IF its an android, connect to it via ADB and disable all the BS apps, even launcher. I am using projectivity launcher on mine, even has child lock which we really need. No ads or popups etc at all. YouTube is all we watch on this TV anyway, and retro gaming and movies.

I also have Nvidia Shield connected to it, that one is setup the same way.

Do any Android-based TVs allow you to install and use a custom launcher?

I would also like to know the answer here because I see similar slop across brands/prices/sizes/generations of TV now.. its inescapable

It is totally bonkers. For long time the low tech recommendation (without setting rules on router/firewall) was to never connect TV to network, and use cheap TV box, to use streaming services. And then community's favorite - TiVo - started to show their own ads. Everything based on Android TV is also hit or miss. And might get enshitified with an update at any time. I think NVidia Shield is the only device other than AppleTV that works as expected. Only it didn't have an hardware upgrade in 5+ years.

It's unfortunate that the 2020s era Apple is so big/rich, in a way. Old Apple used to dabble in all sorts of niches, but now they need to sell 10M units/year to move the needle. So they'll never just make a TV now.

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