Even Framework has major quality issues. Thinkpads aren't like they used to be.
Every single one has a TERRIBLE keyboard, TERRIBLE trackpad. Mediocre screen. Bad battery life.
In principal, repairability seems good. But the least repairable laptop is also the best quality.
Keyboard, Trackpad, Screen are a mix of cost and taste. Apple has streamlined product offerings and each model has significant volume. Other vendors either don't have much volume (Framework) or get their volume through a multitude of models and options (Lenovo, HP, Dell), they can't justify engineering costs to get a touchpad made for them, and the Apple one isn't available. Thinkpads models have a spectrum of repairability, so Lenovo probably has some market insights there... they do tend to offer things in less and more servicable generation after generation.
Apple can do well on battery life because they own the hardware design, the cpu design, the firmware, the OS, and at least some of the userland and they have only a handful of models to work with. And they have a roughly incomparable product; it's always Apples vs Oranges, so they can decide to take a 1% perf hit for a 2% battery life gain... whereas if the Lenovo Ryzen Max 390 HyperFighting laptop is 1% slower than the Dell laptop with the same chip, that's bad PR, even if there's 2% battery savings.
Microsoft's own brand laptops could maybe drive better integration of OS and system, but really haven't. Microsoft is busy selling their Cloud, and stuffing Clippy into Notepad. I suspect they don't really want to compete too hard against OEMs anyway.
I’ve owned a Framework for a year, no quality issues.
Lenovo makes many great models. You just have to look at reviews and find the right one for you.
There are multiple PC laptop companies making terrific haptic trackpads that are essentially identical to Apple’s offerings, including Lenovo.
Apple also unnecessarily over-relies on the trackpad in their software. It’s their scheme to get you to buy their $150 trackpad and avoid the need to compete with superior accessory manufacturers (same deal with the Touch ID keyboards, you can only buy from Apple). In reality, keyboard shortcuts on Windows and Linux are more intuitive than swiping three fingers around. The thumb and three fingers gestures on macOS are complete insanity. In reality, a $20 Bluetooth mouse tossed in your backpack has better control and precision than the best Apple trackpad imaginable (and normal mechanical trackpads are perfectly fine, especially on operating systems that don’t over-rely on the trackpad as an accessory sales gimmick).
There are PC laptops shipping with screens that are better than Macs in many ways (tandem OLED). Heck, the 2026 ASUS Zenbook Duo gives you dual screens in a laptop with basically no compromises!
Louis Rossman has pointed out many times that Apple’s internal component quality is nothing to write home about.
Don’t forget that macOS locks you out of feature updates after 10 years since a model goes on sale. People who buy Macs have high disposable income compared to baseline and replace them before they run into hardware failures.
What's going on here?
https://old.reddit.com/r/framework/comments/1dvtqwb/after_ov...
https://old.reddit.com/r/framework/comments/1qei0ny/returnin...
https://old.reddit.com/r/framework/comments/1of2f8s/return_s...
I’m sure Framework doesn’t have the best support out there but the great thing about the wider PC market is that they’re not the only option. I also don’t really depend on Framework support as much as I would depend on Apple support.
Apple won’t sell parts direct to consumers.
Dell will come to your house to fix their business class systems, will Apple do that?
Apple has great support but it costs you. After your year of warranty is up, you’re paying above the value of your system to fix most issues, or you can buy AppleCare (insurance) for hundreds of dollars.
Funny timing for this discussion, I just this week got my second settlement check from the Apple butterfly keyboard class action lawsuit. Apple sold me a computer with a fundamentally defective design and all they could do for me is repair it with the same fundamentally defective keyboard design. No refund, no trade in for a revised product. I had to sell that computer to have any hope of keeping a machine I could be comfortable with long term.
If I had a Framework, they wouldn't even be replying to me.
That's the difference. That's why it's garbage. They don't stand by their product, and don't care if it fails on you.
Quality INCLUDES support, by the way.
Fine, you don’t like framework, someone can get a PC laptop from a brand with available concierge support like HP, Dell, Lenovo. Dell will come to your house to repair your system. Apple will not.
Your motherboard was repaired at $0 because you were in warranty. That’s not really a spectacularly unique experience. I even got ASUS to do that and they’re literally the worst.
The whole “walk into a store” thing with Apple isn’t actually an advantage anymore because they no longer repair computers inside the retail locations, they’re all shipped out to depot.
Apple support is all smiles, but their out of warranty pricing is where they are effectively dismissive. They might as well not respond to emails at that point because their solutions are “you might as well throw your computer in the trash,” economically speaking.
Ghosting paying customers is irredeemable behavior.
At no point in this entire thread was the subject supposed to be a discussion of one specific brand.