Apple Used to Design Its Laptops for Repairability
ifixit.com
ifixit.com
That’s in line with what this article is saying, but I would be remiss if I did not say that the durability of those laptops has gone up inverse to the repairability. The 2020 M1 MacBook Air is one of the most durable machines I’ve ever bought from Apple. I strongly suspect that this trade-off of durability and repairability is real.
I should also point out that I needed to disassemble and reassemble the 2005 MacBook Pro because Apple screwed up the manufacturing. I had to take the whole computer apart and replace the thermal paste because they had put on too much. A later machine I had to replace the battery. I have not had to open up the last two that I bought.
It was cool and fun and scary to open that machine up and have to reassemble it and hope that it would work again, but I don’t really want to do that with a machine that I depend on. I would much rather never have to do that.
It’s possible that this, and not planned obsolescence, is what is driving things. If it is planned obsolescence, they’re doing a really bad job of obsoleting my six-year-old computer.
It used to be so damn easy with my 2006 MBP. Pop the old one out, pop a new one in, literally seconds to replace. You could even carry an extra battery with you when traveling.
Now battery replacement is a giant PITA. And Apple wants you to mail the machine to them and be without it for days instead of getting onsite same-day replacement. I hate this situation.
Apple desktops also used to be more repairable. I remember Apple sending me an iMac G5 midplane, which was basically the "guts" of the computer, to replace at home. You could do fan and power supply replacement too.
I would say that Apple never specifically built computers with repairability in mind save for your occasional Power Mac G3 type of model that was specifically meant for professional users installing specialized third party hardware.
No, it was more like, that’s just how computers used to be built. The only way to build a computer was to get a hard drive from Toshiba and screw it in.
Sure, occasionally you had a standout like the polycarbonate MacBook with removable battery and drive/RAM right behind an easily accessible panel. I’m sure at some point an engineer thought about upgrades and repairs and corporate management didn’t mind.
I think Lenovo even talked about their iFixit partnership in a similar way where they discussed how you’re under pressures that are really more important: you’re trying to design something and get it out the door in the right form factor and you are thinking about how you’re putting it together. Even if you want the computer to be repairable it’s always down below #1 on your list on priorities even if you don’t mean to specifically prevent people from repairing and upgrading the system.
I think iFixit might also be wrong about the Airport card. IIRC, those were socketed for regulatory reasons, not so that you could install your own.
Even Framework has major quality issues. Thinkpads aren't like they used to be.
Every single one has a TERRIBLE keyboard, TERRIBLE trackpad. Mediocre screen. Bad battery life.
In principal, repairability seems good. But the least repairable laptop is also the best quality.
Keyboard, Trackpad, Screen are a mix of cost and taste. Apple has streamlined product offerings and each model has significant volume. Other vendors either don't have much volume (Framework) or get their volume through a multitude of models and options (Lenovo, HP, Dell), they can't justify engineering costs to get a touchpad made for them, and the Apple one isn't available. Thinkpads models have a spectrum of repairability, so Lenovo probably has some market insights there... they do tend to offer things in less and more servicable generation after generation.
Apple can do well on battery life because they own the hardware design, the cpu design, the firmware, the OS, and at least some of the userland and they have only a handful of models to work with. And they have a roughly incomparable product; it's always Apples vs Oranges, so they can decide to take a 1% perf hit for a 2% battery life gain... whereas if the Lenovo Ryzen Max 390 HyperFighting laptop is 1% slower than the Dell laptop with the same chip, that's bad PR, even if there's 2% battery savings.
Microsoft's own brand laptops could maybe drive better integration of OS and system, but really haven't. Microsoft is busy selling their Cloud, and stuffing Clippy into Notepad. I suspect they don't really want to compete too hard against OEMs anyway.
I’ve owned a Framework for a year, no quality issues.
Lenovo makes many great models. You just have to look at reviews and find the right one for you.
There are multiple PC laptop companies making terrific haptic trackpads that are essentially identical to Apple’s offerings, including Lenovo.
Apple also unnecessarily over-relies on the trackpad in their software. It’s their scheme to get you to buy their $150 trackpad and avoid the need to compete with superior accessory manufacturers (same deal with the Touch ID keyboards, you can only buy from Apple). In reality, keyboard shortcuts on Windows and Linux are more intuitive than swiping three fingers around. The thumb and three fingers gestures on macOS are complete insanity. In reality, a $20 Bluetooth mouse tossed in your backpack has better control and precision than the best Apple trackpad imaginable (and normal mechanical trackpads are perfectly fine, especially on operating systems that don’t over-rely on the trackpad as an accessory sales gimmick).
There are PC laptops shipping with screens that are better than Macs in many ways (tandem OLED). Heck, the 2026 ASUS Zenbook Duo gives you dual screens in a laptop with basically no compromises!
Louis Rossman has pointed out many times that Apple’s internal component quality is nothing to write home about.
Don’t forget that macOS locks you out of feature updates after 10 years since a model goes on sale. People who buy Macs have high disposable income compared to baseline and replace them before they run into hardware failures.
What's going on here?
https://old.reddit.com/r/framework/comments/1dvtqwb/after_ov...
https://old.reddit.com/r/framework/comments/1qei0ny/returnin...
https://old.reddit.com/r/framework/comments/1of2f8s/return_s...
I’m sure Framework doesn’t have the best support out there but the great thing about the wider PC market is that they’re not the only option. I also don’t really depend on Framework support as much as I would depend on Apple support.
Apple won’t sell parts direct to consumers.
Dell will come to your house to fix their business class systems, will Apple do that?
Apple has great support but it costs you. After your year of warranty is up, you’re paying above the value of your system to fix most issues, or you can buy AppleCare (insurance) for hundreds of dollars.
Funny timing for this discussion, I just this week got my second settlement check from the Apple butterfly keyboard class action lawsuit. Apple sold me a computer with a fundamentally defective design and all they could do for me is repair it with the same fundamentally defective keyboard design. No refund, no trade in for a revised product. I had to sell that computer to have any hope of keeping a machine I could be comfortable with long term.
If I had a Framework, they wouldn't even be replying to me.
That's the difference. That's why it's garbage. They don't stand by their product, and don't care if it fails on you.
Quality INCLUDES support, by the way.
Fine, you don’t like framework, someone can get a PC laptop from a brand with available concierge support like HP, Dell, Lenovo. Dell will come to your house to repair your system. Apple will not.
Your motherboard was repaired at $0 because you were in warranty. That’s not really a spectacularly unique experience. I even got ASUS to do that and they’re literally the worst.
The whole “walk into a store” thing with Apple isn’t actually an advantage anymore because they no longer repair computers inside the retail locations, they’re all shipped out to depot.
Apple support is all smiles, but their out of warranty pricing is where they are effectively dismissive. They might as well not respond to emails at that point because their solutions are “you might as well throw your computer in the trash,” economically speaking.
Ghosting paying customers is irredeemable behavior.
At no point in this entire thread was the subject supposed to be a discussion of one specific brand.
However while planning to buy a framework I realized that some oft Apples decisions have techical reasons...
Lpcamm2 is great, but not fast enough for unified memory and eats up more battery.
Easy repairability is awesome, but has an impact not only look and feel, but also sound design and durability (dust, etc.). Thinkpads solved this quite well, though.
Moreover requiring certified replacements can also prevent scam and can be seen as anti theft.
However, I'm not saying Apple is great, but at least not all their decisions are only to make more money. I personally am and keep being a Linux man, so never buying an Apple device again until they make a new iPod Nano ;-)
The vast majority of popular PC laptops sold have soldered RAM and socketed SSDs and that situation is a huge improvement over what Apple delivers. Most people just want to be able to upgrade storage or at least configure storage at pricing that’s somewhat close to market value.
And then you’ve got a whole other segment of PCs that use dedicated graphics and therefore don’t even need soldered RAM at all. You don’t need super fast RAM bandwidth unless you are using high-end integrated graphics. In that respect, there are a lot of thin and light gaming laptops that give you socketed RAM and that is very obviously consumer friendly.
If Framework offered a soldered RAM board it would still be a vast improvement over Apple’s offering. You could say, hey, I want the fast integrated graphics, I’ll choose the soldered RAM version. Or, I will take mid-range integrated graphics and keep my socketed RAM board.
You’d still benefit from their cross-compatibility of boards, support for standalone board usage (I.e., upgrade your board in your laptop and use the old one as a server or desktop computer). You’d still have modular SSD storage and WiFi chips which you don’t even have to buy a Framework to get. Hell, many MacBook competitors have dual SSD slots and there’s no discernible downside to it. Mac SSDs aren’t faster than top end PCI-E gen 4/5 hardware.
Citation needed for impact on look and feel and sound design/durability. My framework has zero deck flex, it’s an aluminum chassis just like a MacBook, and yeah the speakers suck but that’s just because Framework doesn’t own the world’s most successful audio company. As you alluded to, Lenovo makes some repairable systems that have top tier laptop speakers.
Plenty of computers with great MacBook-level fit and finish let you access the SSD at bare minimum. E.g., the latest generation Dell XPS.
Theft prevention and replacement hardware scams is on the bottom of my list. Isn’t this obviously just a convenient excuse to squeeze third party repair shops? One of the easiest ways to prevent repair shop scams would be to make the computer so easy to repair that I don’t need a repair shop.