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Comment by captainmuon | Hacker News Reader

I don't understand that point. Why do e-bikes become better or more safe when you have to rotate your legs? Its really frustrating and silly that I have to go through the motions (literally) of riding a bicycle if I want to get the priviledge of using a bike lane or going without a license plate. (At least that's the case here in Germany AFAIK).

They could go ahead and make "fast electric bikes" and "slow electric bikes" or something as categories and that would make sense - but hinging the decision on whether your legs or your wrist is turning is illogical. I think it is actually morally charged - like you have to put in the work if you want the privilege.

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Its easy, the accelerations are completely different and very hard to gauge. Also you have the elderly going speeds that does not mach their reactions, while also being unaware of how fast they are going. If you try biking with them it become very obvious how many dangerous situations they cause compared to true e-bike and normal bikes.

Pedal assist feels like amplifying your natural power. The boost it gives is perfectly matched with your own movements so it feels more like you are just super fit. And there is far less chance you can just slip and apply too much power unlike throttle controlled.

In my area, I think that non electric bikes are often more dangerous: they are often non tolerant of others and hesitant to slow down because of speed conservation. Especially in our hilly town. Easy "free" acceleration is plus here.

Don't let perfect be the enemy of good.

We can focus on clamping down of "faux pedal ebikes" when the time comes, but for now it looks like we'll be throwing out everything to just to stop teenagers on surrons.

It's because absolutely everyone understands the proportional nature of "press pedals to go" while nobody without special training understands "turn wrist to go", especially not the crucial details of "untwist wrist to stop" and "by the way don't yank open the throttle while attempting a sharp turn".

> Why do e-bikes become better or more safe when you have to rotate your legs?

Because you're directly engaged in operating them. Electric handcycles are also legal, the problem isn't which body part it is, it's whether you're moving muscles to move your bike - and, perhaps more importantly, that your bike will stop accelerating when you stop your body.

How much riding does it take to hold 25mph? 12 months of solid riding? (This is being generous, many people will never hold this speed)

How much riding does it take to twist your arm 30 degrees?

You don’t see a difference?

Why does it matter how much riding it takes?

The point in distinguishing the different classes is about where the bike should fit into the ecosystem. Should it ride on the shoulder, interacting with pedestrians and slower bikes, or should it ride on the road, interacting with cars and motorcycles.

It doesn’t matter how much riding it takes, it matters how fast and controlled it is moving compared to the other traffic in that class.

Why would people have a hard time doing 25mph on a pedal assist bike that isn't limited to less than that?

They're talking about riding a regular bike at 25mph. Most people can't sustain that.

Most people cannot sustain it on a 750w mid drive e-bike either.

Are ebikes not legally restricted to 250W-ish in most countries?

That's the limit for continuous rated power. The motor's frequently have 600W-750W of peak power output, and can legally use this much for short amounts of time (usually seconds, like accelerating from a stop; but often also for going up a steep hill for several minutes).

The answer is cyclist gatekeeping? Or did I misunderstand your point?

"hinging the decision on whether your legs or your wrist is turning is illogical"

No it's not, it's recognizing the psychology between "big push with foot makes go fast" and "pressing button makes go fast".

Besides, if the only thing that matters is speed, then logically you'd have to require normal pushbikes to register as well, once cyclists are able to pedal sufficiently fast.

> recognizing the psychology between "big push with foot makes go fast" and "pressing button makes go fast".

And what is the psychological difference? As far as I'm concerned when I'm using torque-sensing pedal assist, I'm just pressing the button with my foot. The distinction between throttle and pedal assist is non existent in my eyes: pedal assist is just pressing the throttle with your foot.

Motor wattage and top speed is what matters.

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