Comment by cletus | Hacker News Reader

Comment by cletus | Hacker News Reader

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Two problems I see. The first is:

> I still had a job, which made everything near impossible, that I couldn’t afford to quit. I worked during the day as a report writer, snuck in emails and business calls for Altsie over my lunch, and worked late into the night to take care of hundreds of necessary details to keep the project going.

combined with

> Despite my downward physical spiral, I managed to marry the love of my life

I appreciate that people have lives too but you just can't do two jobs and have a personal life. Sorry. Something has to give. I've read many tales of where having just the startup has put a strain on personal relationships.

I wonder what the situation was with the cofounders. How many were there? Were they full-time? If so, that could be a problem (in that they might end up feeling that they've gone "all in" when you haven't).

> Two years building and eight months running Altsie took its toll.

Two years to launch? i wonder how much quicker it would've been to launch if it had full-time resources. For something that isn't hugely technically sophisticated (correct me if I'm wrong but this doesn't sound like that kind of startup) that is (IMHO) too long. People talk about MVPs for a reason. You need to prove your idea and get feedback ASAP.

Whatever the case, eight months doesn't seem long enough to prove anything one way or the other.

I don't mean to be harsh so I apologize if it comes across that way. Lucas, good luck to you. I would suggest that when you wish to try your next venture (assuming you do), you do so when you can dedicate it to yourself full-time.

> I appreciate that people have lives too but you just can't do two jobs and have a personal life.

Sure you can. You just have to work at it, and get organized. For the last 2 and a half years, I've worked a 9-5 contracting gig, been CTO at a startup with major blue-chip clients, gotten married, learned to drive, released some open-source software, prototyped some software for another startup, and completed the first third of an MSc at a well-known university. Also I finally got my shit together, and lost a lot of weight.

And I often feel like I waste a lot of my time.

Is it easy? It's not that hard (or I wouldn't be doing it). You just need to be organized... I gave up drinking alcohol, which meant I don't lose precious hours to hangovers. My wife is also pretty busy, but we carve out two evenings a week and a whole day of weekend to just spend with each other (and often with friends), and that works well. I think the trick is to be _really strict_ about when you're working and when you're not working. Email by default only flashes up on my phone when it has the word 'urgent' added to the subject.

The amount people big-talk here about burning their bridges, full commitment, etc etc, I get the idea that everyone else is working their fingers to the bone, and I just don't feel that busy. I'm pretty tired by Friday night, but a lie-in until 8am on Saturday sorts me out. I don't think it'll work when I have kids, and I wouldn't want to do it forever, but it's certainly doable.

> You just need to be organized

Putting just inside of a sentence doesn't suddenly make it easier. "It's easy, you just have to learn linear algebra". "It's easy, you just have to sleep less."

People's ability to organize seems to be part learned and part innate. You should count yourself blessed that the organization is just that easy for you :)

I am fairly sure the discussion centered around "is it possible", rather than "is it easy". No, it's not easy. I am surprised you came away thinking it might be.

Maybe because you said "It's not that hard (or I wouldn't be doing it)."

The ability of people to be organized (whether it is learned or innate) is widely varying, so it is reasonable to assume that the step "just be organized" is going to have a wide range of difficulties depending on the person.

I am glad it is possible for you, and truly impressed. But for some people it would be a matter or organizing 28 hours into a 24 hour day, and still not sleeping. When I did my tiny startup years ago it was every waking second of every day. Granted mine failed absolutely, not with a bang but a whimper, so I am not an ideal example.

I have to respectively disagree with you; a business can grow with part-time investment, it just won't be growing as quick as if it were a full-time position.

Sure, it might not have worked out this time, as many startups don't, but I'm sure he learned a lot and maybe he'll give it another go sometime.

Some business certainly can, but when you HAVE to go door to door to make the business work, when it has such a physical "meatspace" presence you need to go full time.

This is an honest take on things, and whilst it would be great to have the ability to dedicate ourselves to something full-time, it isn't always possible.

I'm currently in the process of running a startup, whilst maintaining a family and a full-time job. Is it ideal? Certainly not, but at this stage of my life it just isn't an option to quit my regular job. This doesn't represent a lack of dedication to what I am trying to achieve it simply diminishes the time that I have to work on it. That is fine with me though (and I suspect it was with the OP as he decided to take the journey in the first place). I'd rather try when my circumstances limit things, than not try at all.

It also helps to have a co-founder who is willing to stick by you through thick or thin. I thought I had this, but when the shit hit the fan, the guy bailed on me. Then refused to pay me. He thinks he's a moral person, but at the end of the day he doesn't pay and doesn't have any loyalty.

Without a cofounder you can rely on, I can't see how you can make it work. I was lucky in that I didn't get too far in (well, I got in quite far) before I realised the guy's ethics were terrible. It was an interesting learning experience though, and I'm greatful for the opportunity. It's only a pity it cost my family time and money, but we'll rebuild.

I agree that having a job and doing a startup is not giving either of those things a fair chance at succeeding. But also if I had to add one thing, I'd say that most entrepreneurs simply give up too fast. This might have represented a true test against how badly you actually want to have your own business (non lifestyle business that is) and maybe your decision is the truest manifestation of your real desires, but I think that if you know that what you really want is to change the world with a "let's blow this out of the water" type of business, then less than 3 years is simply too soon to give up in my opinion.

It is a tough one, I doubt a business like this could raise without some significant traction and I doubt it could get this without operating for some time. The answer I guess is to build up some savings and accept you will have to get by on not much for a year full time to give it a chance.

I don't think all startups/ online projects require full time effort to ever see a return. I think this one likely does though, lots of moving parts and you have to convince distributors.

I agree. I'm fortunate in that my wife understands that I'm sacrificing our personal life for a bigger future. I had a job and bootstrapped our company during this time, but had to work 12 hour days for 16 months. Winning often requires sacrifice. Not always, but often.

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