Comment by brudgers | Hacker News Reader

Comment by brudgers | Hacker News Reader

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I bought one of those Microsoft touch mice. I was getting ready to install the Windows 8 Consumer Preview, and after watching the video, it looked like a great option...and simultaneously, my Logitech Mouse had a dying mosfet switch so I was in the market for a new mouse anyway. [Really, I wasn't just rationalizing buying sexy technology].

It wasn't the first time I've bough I Microsoft mouse. I bought one back about a decade or so ago when another Logitech mouse died. It suffered the same fate as the Microsoft touch mouse. It was returned to the store and exchanged for another Logitech - for exactly the same reason.

Neither was acceptable for my workflow. Unsurprisingly, I spend a meaningful amount of time using CAD/BIM software. The touch mouse zoomed in when I adjusted my grip ("drawing" with a mouse largely involves holding it). There was no way to program the gestures. Likewise, the earlier Microsoft mouse had lots of buttons, but no way to program the middle button as a middle button - as an early "many button" mouse, the middle button had some dedicated function and I had about a decade of muscle memory and projects to push out the door.

The author is experiencing the same thing. The new device isn't tailored to his workflow. It probably isn't reasonable to expect it to be. It's competitors aren't; most people don't have a similar workflow; and it's still version one of the software (Word for RT).

This doesn't excuse the devices performance. But it also puts the author's experience in perspective. Right now, he's somewhat of an edge use case.

Brent the author here. I'd be really curious to hear which portions of my experience are edge cases - typing in Word, using the camera, and checking my email don't seem out of the mainstream to me on a tablet whose main market purports to be workers.

The reality of the current market is that slates are media consumption devices, not laptop replacements - in so far as one uses their laptop for productivity.

A person who types frequently enough, fast enough, and in sufficient quantity to experience a bottle neck with Windows RT's version of Word as a critical purchase feature, is an edge case...or rather not part of the targeted market segment at this time. This is little different from Apple's segmentation between iPad and Macbook Air.

Microsoft appears to recognize this. Hence, the "pro" version in the pipeline, and which you are considering as better suited to your workflow.

Windows Surface RT is targeted as an alternative to an iPad. Configuration issues are a one time pain. New software may not work any better than iTunes. The solution to gorilla arms may not be ideal for everyone. The question is, are they good enough to make it a general success?

> The reality of the current market is that slates are media consumption devices

This isn't true, especially for tablets with 10" screen-size. The "media creation" apps are there, in Apple's App Store, and on Google Play, and people buy them and use them. My tablet has totally replaced the roll of journals, planners, and notebooks. I do all my UI sketches on my iPad, wite my school assignments, take my notes, keep my journal, etc. And millions of other people do the same on these devices; or at least they want to: Creation apps sell.

> A person who types frequently enough, fast enough, and in sufficient quantity to experience a bottle neck with Windows RT's version of Word as a critical purchase feature, is an edge case...or rather not part of the targeted market segment at this time.

No, Microsoft is marketing the Surface as an iPad alternative that can Do Buisness Things: It's got a USB port, and it runs Real Office.

I completely disagree.

MS bundled and highly touted the existence of the keyboard on the Surface as proof that its a "no compromise" tablet. Typing (a very very basic activity) in Word (perhaps the most established piece of software ever) should JUST WORK, no matter what.

Even if you're right about that Surface/Win RT's target is the iPad, have you ever seen an iPad lag on typing from an external keyboard? I haven't.

He encountered problems typing at a reasonable speed, saving a Word document, videoconferencing, and opening the mail client. They sound like issues that can be corrected with a software update, but I don't think they're specific to his workflow.

Compare these activities to the way in which the Surface's competition handles them...e.g typing, creating documents, video conferencing, and configuring email on an iPad.

The author's expectations were that the Surface would be as productive as a Windows laptop. Nobody expects an iPad to be as productive as a MacBook.

Brent the author here. No, I did not expect the Surface to be as productive as a Windows laptop, but I did expect that Word would be able to keep up with me while I type - just as any other modern device is. I'm not asking to do 3D renderings, just to type a document.

For what it's worth, I also wrote about why I was preordering it here: http://ozar.me/2012/10/why-i-preordered-a-microsoft-surface-...

Brent, Ben here. Your original blog post is explicit that the critical issue is PowerPoint compatibility. This doesn't come up among your reasons for dissatisfaction. I'm not skewering you, only pointing out that the rationales you articulated are different from your unarticulated expectations...though your articulated expectations were rather low.

The referenced post, however, implies an expectation to replace both an Air and an iPad with the Surface. Your post today implies that this is still the case, i.e. you intend to purchase a Surface Pro when they become available.

I'm not saying the performance of the Surface is excusable. But mainly because Word ships on it and a full function keyboard is an available option. This implies that the Surface is suitable for full speed touch typing while running a Word document (i.e. processing complex XML and accurately rendering arbitrary fonts and graphic elements with full compatibility with the desktop version). Consider the steps Apple took to avoid creating this situation with iWork when initially released - incompatible file structures meant no requirement to support touch typing without discarding document structure.

Hmmm - no, I don't own an Air. I would only be replacing my gen 1 iPad. As such, my expectations were pretty low, but I can't out-type my iPad in any document editor.

> Compare these activities to the way in which the Surface's competition handles them...e.g typing, creating documents, video conferencing, and configuring email on an iPad.

I just tried making a Word document on an iPad. Astonishingly, it did _not_ lag in that hilarious manner. I haven't done it in a while, but I seem to remember that configuring email was also easy an intuitive. Certainly, tablets will tend to be less capable than desktops, but not to this extent.

You're creating an inaccurate view of the author's desires that is not supported by anything he wrote or showed us.

He wanted Word to not be laggy—completely reasonable and basic, nothing that would require laptop-level productivity.

He wanted programs to give an indication that they are doing something, when they are doing something—completely reasonable and obvious.

He wanted programs to not take minutes to launch or set-up—completely reasonable, etc.

____

I think your suggestion that Surface/Win RT's performance be compared to that of an iPad is spot on. iPad creates documents, video conferences and sets up email quickly and without problem in all of my experiences and in all of the reviews on the web that I have read.

That's just not accurate. It's not unreasonable to expect your tablet to keep up with your typing, or opening the Mail app to not take a full minute.

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