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Comment by maccard | Hacker News Reader

I’m an Irish citizen who lives in the UK. I’m entitled to vote for the upper house in Ireland (Seanad) and in both Uk and Scottish general elections due to our “special arrangement”. I have no plans to apply for citizenship, nor to leave the UK.

Honestly, it’s an incredibly privileged thing to be able to do and I think of it every time I vote. I am an ardent supporter of free movement of people. I genuinely think that voting in GEs should be restricted to citizens of the country (and that my exemption is unfair). Without that distinction, what is the difference between a long term resident and a citizen? Why would you ever go through it. The _citizens_ should vote for what country they want, and the residents (me) should decide do we still want to be a part of that world.

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The UK is quite liberal with who can vote in general elections allowing both Commonwealth as well as Irish citizens living in the UK). I don't think there's any harm to it and it seems unavoidable given our history. It would certainly be untenable to disallow those who do not identify as British living in Northern Ireland from voting in UK general elections.

It’s certainly an interesting quirk - it’s also not just everyone who is a commonwealth citizen, it’s everyone who is a commonwealth citizen who has a legal right to be in the UK, which is… not everyone.

The UKs history is murky and I think that the rules reflect that. I don’t think a rug pull is a good idea for existing people. Despite what I said above, having that right removed from me would feel like a huge blow, as it would be a marks change on how the relationship between Ireland and the UK is.

> Without that distinction, what is the difference between a long term resident and a citizen?

You fall into an edge case. Irish citizens have special status in the UK as a result of the countries' shared history. In this particular case the biggest difference is that you can't get a UK passport as an Irish citizen.

I’m acutely aware I’m an edge case - I hoped I made it clear above that I am cognisant of it and that I think of it every time I exercise that privilege

> in this particular case the biggest difference is that you can’t get a UK passport as an Irish citizen.

Sure, but I’ve also been here long enough to naturalise - it’s a decision for me, not something I need to do anything more to be eligible for.

Why citizens and not permanent residents?

For the same reason that married couples enjoy privileges that dating couples do not. The long term commitment and investment in a partner indicate and confer interest in long term stability and development.

So a permanent resident who has lived in a country, for say, 10 years? You don't think they're committed at that point and should have a right to vote on the society they are contributing to?

Is there any country in Europe where you can't naturalize after 10 years? Maybe some micro state?

My point is, if you're not willing to go through the naturalisation process when you're eligible, what's the problem?

I agree with your point - but to answer your question, none that take _more_ than 10 years but quite a few that take 10 years. Austria had particularly tough requirements - 10 years, language competency _and_ no dual citizenship

To throw it back at you- should a couple who have been together for 10 years be afforded the same rights as a married couple?

> you don’t think they’re committed at that point and should have a right to vote in the society they are contributing to

Honestly - no, I don’t. I think that voting in a GE is a huge privilege, and it should require an explicit declaration and an acceptance from the country they are part of.

I think you should look into common-law marriage. At least in Canada, living together for 2 years, means you are much closer to being married than not.

It's even applicable for taxes.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common-law_marriage

Yes, you're not married. But you're not single either.

The article you are linking to specifically says that Canada doesn't have common law marriage only that “informal cohabitation relationships are recognised for certain purposes in Canada, creating legal rights and obligations”

Yes, it's marriage light in Canada. But other jurisdictions do have it.

Residency is citizenship light if you want to take that angle

Then apply for citizenship, take language and, usually, constitution exam and get the citizenship.

If somebody doesn’t care enough to prove they know the basics of the language and legal system in the country… Maybe they shouldn’t have voting privilege either?

I can vote in local elections, eg for people that spend my council tax.

Yup, they should definitely apply for citizenship

Are there no differences in obligations between the two (e.g., draft)?

It’s going to wildly depend on the countries, but between the UK and Ireland, no.

You do have to swear allegiance to the monarchy in the UK, which some people may feel more or less positively about.

It's kinda bizarre that we make people who want to become citizens swear allegiance to the Monarchy

I’m British and have never sworn, or ever will swear allegiance to the Monarchy

I believe the UK should be a republic in the Irish sense i.e. no monarchy and a symbolic president

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