Hacker News Reader

Comment by that_guy_iain | Hacker News Reader

[flagged]

Interesting, your take away is that Google is the one with the bug here?

If Gmail rejects emails from your domain it is up to you to fix it. Google is not going to change, and enough of your users will be interacting with people on Gmail that you have to fix it. It doesn't help that Google has been pushing people away from running their own email and into Google's services by ever tightening what it accepts over the years. More than one person has given up on their email server because it was a constant battle with Google, Microsoft, and company to not have important emails disappear into the void.

Their @gmail.com servers accept the messages (as said in the post) so it's not a problem for 99% of Google users either.

If you choose to host your email with Google, it's up to you to fix your email delivery settings (or find a better provider) for your domain.

An attempt no doubt to extenguish a standard google doesn't control

My takeaway is there is no bug. My takeaway is that his test email bounced because he didn't have the reputation Viva does. Emails are handled on a reputation basis, this is why we use email service providers like Sendgrid, Mailgun, Postmark, etc.

It always amazes me how people can read a blog post like this one that has a clear description of the problem with a log excerpts demonstrating the problem, and then people will confidently make up a completely different scenario that was not mentioned at all and blame the problem on that.

User is clearly mentally disturbed. Read his other comment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46992022

Social network is not good for the poor guy. I already regret replying to him in the first place but I cannot delete.

WTF you talking about? Rene, this is defamation and I'm probably going to take action because honestly, enough is enough. I'm fed up of folk like you who lack basic technical knowledge or any knowledge making up bullshit. Your hourly rate makes me like you have money to take.

Iain, I say this with the best of intentions. Please put down the keyboard. It is serving you poorly.

It amazes me people read that in this community and don't know for an email to bounce it means it didn't find an inbox. If it didn't find an inbox how did he check the logs?

I think that's a misunderstanding of the tale. Viva sent a "click here to verify your email" to OP. That email never arrived because Google rejected it for missing a header. OP tried to tell viva, but they don't wanna hear it because OP worked around it.

> My takeaway is that his test email bounced

What test email? I see no mention of a test email in the blog post. The mail that bounced was the one with the verification link from Viva.

So you think he had access to Viva's email servers to see the response? No, he clearly tested it himself and used his credentials to send it.

The log line is from Google Workspace which exposes it to its customers for incoming mail

Thank you! I added a screenshot of the Google Workspace Admin log screen... just becuase.

Yeah. I think email receiving is a game of exceptions… the email receivers (In the business world it’s essentially just MSFT and GOOG of course) answer to the addressees because they are the customer, and those customers will start to shriek if their inbox doesn’t receive “Important Messages.” But GOOG or MS have no leverage over the senders in this case so they just add an exception: “if IP range is just right and message fault ___ is present, fix message” (or otherwise allow)

Of course, they do have leverage over “marketing email” senders since they can block it and no one will complain, so those senders always have impeccable compliance with every year’s new “anti-spam standard.”

Apple is another major player in the email receiving game for consumers. And they are awful, by far the worst of all the big providers. They do not send dmarc reports and they make it very difficult to tell why they accept some email and not others.

What test email?

https://atha.io/_next/image?url=%2Fstatic%2Fblog%2F2026%2Fvi...

If you read two paragraphs further than the Tl;Dr:

> To unblock myself, I switched to a personal @gmail.com address for the account. Gmail's own receiving infrastructure is apparently more lenient with messages, or perhaps routes them differently. The verification email came through.

1. Email didn’t arrive in his inbox of his Google workspace

2. He checked workspace email logs (with admin you can do this on gsuite)

3. It showed the intentional non-accept

4. Comprehending the problem, he switched to personal Gmail

5. The email arrived

6. He informed the sender of the original problem which he worked around

7. Sender is tech-illiterate and did not realize what the problem is. This is common with first line customer support so that happens.

The question to ask is whether you are literate in English or you skimmed too fast. Because I did a 30 s read of the article and got that.

> 1. Email didn’t arrive in his inbox of his Google workspace

> 2. He checked workspace email logs (with admin you can do this on gsuite)

But it didn't arrive, so how was it in his email logs!?!?!?! Are you tech literate? Isn't this the second time you've been asked or was I rate limited at that point?

It does seem unlikely that there are no customers on google workspace who have tried to use viva. I don't do payment processing, and my email is via zoho, so I've no idea how large either of those groups are.

I wonder what google workspace support said.

I suspect that Google going out of their way to make this required had a very reasonable and thought-out process, while the sender's omission was on oversight, so I haven't contacted Google Workspace support.

What's truly iffy is that GMail doesn't have the same strict requirements, and there's no way (at least that I found) to turn it off for my Google Workspace domain.

Wikipedia says Viva.com is a multi-billion dollar startup

It seems unlikely you're the first company using viva.com and using google workspace.

Clearly the problem here is that viva.com emails aren't arriving on your google workspace, despite what their support process says.

viva.com emails do arrive on other email providers, so seems unlikely to be problem with your viva.com account

It seems unlikely workplace blocks all viva.com emails otherwise more than you would have complained.

Whether that's viva's problem or google's problem is a separate problem.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com