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Comment by Terr_ | Hacker News Reader

In terms of things I'd say to encourage someone to play without spoilers, I think I'd focus on mechanics, like:

1. The game has depth to its locations that shows up on repeated visits. Expect to return with better tools/information to see new things. Shortcuts will reveal themselves over time.

2. There is an in-game tool that takes notes for you, hints at undiscovered content, and can provide on-screen waypoints to help you navigate.

3. Don't be too worried about your (avatar's) personal safety, or about rushing. Later there may be times where both might matter for your goals, but the game is designed to support trial-and-error.

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One thing to note too is the game can be beaten in the first 10-15 minutes or so without any glitches. You just need to have figured out the grand puzzle of the game. I found that really unique and interesting, like the solution was always available to me but the block was my knowledge of the world, not mechanics or something like an unlockable skill or level.

This is why it's untenable to talk about spoilers in Outer Wilds - 100% of the progression happens in your own mind. Telling someone too much about the game isn't just ruining the surprise or whatever; in a real sense it's playing the game for them rather than letting them play it themselves.

> 100% of the progression happens

Faced with such a statement, the contrarian in me spent a little while trying to remember any exceptions. I won't say "the ship's computer", since that would be against the spirit of the thing, and by extension certain things involving signals/waypoints.

I think certain actions with the Advanced Warp Core would qualify, breaking the usual progression rules and often leading to an alternate ending.

2. Yes! The automatic notes are perfect for getting back on track without spoilers. "There is more to explore here."

I know for some people it removes a sense of wonder and mystery, but as a completionist sort, I really appreciate "you found everything nearby" indicators. It means the game/designer respects my time as a human with (a few) other things to do everyday.

Which points out one of the yet reasons why I consider Outer Wilds one of the best games I have ever played, while Blue Prince, which many consider a similar game, as one of the worst. Respect for my time and for where I want to focus my attention.

I understand why this was frustrating, but the problem is that what you wanted conflicts with the game design. Random drafting is crucial to Blue Prince's design - which means early on when you have few resources and no knowledge you won't be able to "focus my attention" because the draft will override your preferences. This isn't an issue for a late game player, but of course you can't get there.

FWIW while I enjoyed watching other people play Outer Wilds, I found the fine control needed too frustrating. I might decide to investigate part of Brittle Hollow, travel there, fall into the hole, painstakingly get back, fall in again, reset, new day. That's exactly the same frustration you had, but for a different reason and as a result I was often unable to tell which of three things was true:

1. That cannot be done, it's an important fact about Outer Wilds, a revelation

2. I can't do that, I'm incompetent. Sucks to be me. Maybe try again?

3. That cannot be done, whoops, game engine limitation, unimportant.

I never had this in Blue Prince and so I was much better able to enjoy both the game itself and watching others play after I was done (Atelier etc.)

Random drafting is only part of the problem. My biggest gripe was the lack of in-run saving. When a run can take an hour, that's just disrespectful in a single player offline game.

And another (smaller) issue is the step limit. End game has you running to pretty far away areas. The walking itself quickly gets old, but you sometimes waste the entire run because you didn't have enough steps for the required back-and-forth.

That being said, I greatly enjoyed how note-taking was rewarded. By the end I had over 600 screenshots organized in different folders.

Mid-run save is a legitimate gripe. Practically the reason it doesn't have that is that the internal game state is probably horrendous and restoring it would be a nightmare. The engineering in Blue Prince is terrible. Imagine the terrible spaghetti you've seen from self-taught programmers, now, imagine nobody more senior is in charge and remember it's a video game so there's time pressure. So yeah, that's a quality issue, and definitely a fair gripe, I could imagine a hypothetical "fixed" version where this works.

The step limit is an important resource. There's a reason one of the early goals of the game (in Bequest and to some extent Dare modes) is to have more steps at the start of each day and why an important penalty of Curse mode is that you only have 13 steps. As with other resources like keys, you can learn to make better use of what you have and also how to get more of it within reason. I don't think it's as good of a game without Steps. They're not (outside Curse mode) scarce enough to commonly end a run, but they matter.

Yeah, I noticed the engineering issues. One of the few PlayStation games I've played where crashing was a regular occurrence, which made the lack of saves even more infuriating.

I wouldn't suggest removing steps entirely, but maybe something softer than abruptly ending the day. After exhausting my steps, let me walk around without drafting rooms and picking up items, for example.

And the late game puzzle quality was very hit-and-miss for me. I loved the sigils, for example, and appreciated the permanent upgrades/changes. Other puzzles required putting disparate items/ideas together, but by then the game had expanded too much and it was unclear what paths were exhausted, still useful, or simply fluff, and the randomness made every check time-consuming.

Drafting is already a limited resource, the step limit feels like a hat-on-a-hat. The early game could limit on available draft pulls without the step limit.

But also, I am one of the people that the drafting mechanic directly conflicted with my interest in progressing the game. That lack of being able to focus on a particular thread of my choice affected my interest in the game. I didn't want to juggle every thread all at once, especially without knowing which threads are the most interesting to pull ahead of time.

Drafting doesn't cost steps. That is an important early game realisation.

I think this sort of "If I just keep banging my head against it, then it will break" attitude is a problem and Blue Prince was a much nicer experience for discouraging that but of course each person is different.

I understand where you're coming from, but I think this part of BP's nature is critical to its ludonarrative symmetry, in much the same way that OW's gameplay structure frames its narrative.

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P.S.: And if you're playing on a PC, know that there is one section of the game where you need to use your ship thrusters so very gently that it almost requires you to to use a controller.

I can't imagine playing Outer Wilds any other way. It's clearly designed as a controller game. (Doesn't it even explicitly tell you as much before you start, or am I thinking of another game?)

Yes, it mentions this on each game startup.

> It's clearly designed as a controller game.

Sure, but it's still sold as a game you can complete with a KB+M, and--to its credit--it succeeds at that promise basically everywhere else. The defect is how it fails "hard" rather than just being a momentary inconvenience:

1. The issue is hidden and surprising: When it finally appears, it presents like a misunderstanding of clues, or an AI bug. A PC user who has done well for hours with KB+M has no reason to suddenly expect a new non-obvious game mechanic will be impassable* due to the control scheme. (Which is exactly why I felt it was worth mentioning in a list of tips.)

2. No good workaround: Even if the user realizes what's happening, there's not much* you can do about it. The game still punishes you even if you try to feather the inputs with brief taps. Just one additional keybind option (e.g. "slow thrust forward") would have helped.

* Excepting buying a controller, or multiple error-prone attempts at setting your ship on an ultra-slow passive drift for minutes while you do something else.

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