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Comment by oceanplexian | Hacker News Reader

> Protesting is a fundamental human right

That doesn't include vandalism, it doesn't include blocking roads, looting, or assaulting people. What's obvious to me is that a certain class of protestors are intentionally provoking a response from the government by breaking the law. Inevitably someone is arrested, hurt, or killed, and that is used as an excuse for more protests. The protests get increasingly violent in an escalating cycle.

That process isn't exercising a "fundamental human right", it's a form of violence. If you don't agree with the Government the correct answer is to vote, have a dialog, and if you choose to protest do it in a way that's respectful to your neighbors and the people around you.

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> a certain class of protestors

Yes, a proportionally large and significant number of local Minnesota community members of long and good standing.

> are intentionally provoking a response from the government

are reacting to excessive over reach by outsiders, directed by the Federal government to act in a punative manner.

> Inevitably someone is arrested, hurt, or killed,

This has already happened. Multiple times. As was obvious from the outset given the unprofessional behaviour and attitudes of the not-police sent in wearing masks.

> [the people aren't] exercising a "fundamental human right"

they are exercising their Constitutional rights. Including their right to free speech, to bear arms, to protest the Federal government, etc.

> the correct answer is to vote, talk to your neighbors and friends, and peaceably protest,

Which they have done and they continue to do.

See: https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/2026/01/the-neighbors-defe...

for more about the local community of neighbour loving US citizens acting in defence of their community.

The main thing I see these protesters doing wrong is that they seem to freak out and fight back once they get aarrested. This is not how to deal with under-trained law enforcement unless you want to die. Get arrested, get booked, have your friends pay your bail, and then have a media circus around the court cases that result. This seems lame and takes some self-control to do, but it works really well.

Instead, people are getting killed and videos are coming out that seem very chaotic, where people with different predispositions than you can empathize with the police. If those videos were people getting arrested and pepper sprayed for speaking out and for helping each other, they would hit a lot harder for a much larger population.

>The main thing I see these protesters doing wrong is that they seem to freak out and fight back once they get aarrested. This is not how to deal with under-trained law enforcement unless you want to die.

Actually, the less training and self-restraint an officer has, the more incentive there is for a target to do everything they can to flee or resist. If a town trusts its local police to be fair and professional, criminals are more likely to accept the offer of "Drop everything and put your hands on the ground." They trust they'll survive the arrest and avoid anything worse than a rough perp walk. But if the arresting officers are known to brutally beat and pepper spray people they detain, I would expect people to resist detainment.

Last weekend, we saw video footage of a man executed while being restrained and with no weapon in his hands. At this point, reasonable people could believe an ICE officer trying to detain them is threatening their lives. When do self-defense laws kick in?

Do you have an example of a person following orders and complying while being arrested, but still being brutally beaten and pepper sprayed by ICE?

Her name was Renee Nicole Good, and she was shot in the face while attempting to comply with orders given.

From the videos I saw, she was ordered to get out of the car. She did not attempt to comply with that order.

fix your heart.

Emotional adhominen response to a factual argument isn't working outside of kindergarten or reddit

Don’t feed the troll. Save your strength.

https://www.reddit.com/r/50501/comments/1qjf1vc/observer_bei...

This person is face down on the ground being restrained by three officers. Is the pepper spray necessary here?

With just a single frame to go off of, I can't tell. There's not enough information there.

edit: I found a video of this event: https://old.reddit.com/r/minnesota/comments/1qjfxbj/ice_pepp...

It doesn't show what led up to this moment, but it appears the person was indeed resisting arrest. If you are not resisting arrest, you don't need three officers to pin you to the ground.

> If you are not resisting arrest, you don't need three officers to pin you to the ground.

If three officers decide to push you to the ground and jump on top of you, you have three officers on top of you. This says nothing about whether you were resisting arrest or not.

Resisting arrest at least implies that you have some understanding that you are actually being arrested and by someone who at least notionally has some legal basis for doing so. It's why police officers will typically identify themselves and tell you under what you are suspected of during an arrest. If after that someone attempts to flee or fightback then sure.

I'm relatively sure spraying chemical irritants at point blank range is not following any reasonable use of force guidelines. They are just retaliating with force because it suits them.

Your framing places nearly all moral responsibility on protesters while treating state action as reactive and inevitable.

> That doesn't include vandalism, it doesn't include blocking roads, looting, or assaulting people. What's obvious to me is that a certain class of protestors are intentionally provoking a response from the government by breaking the law.

If protestors are doing this sort of thing to ICE agents, then ICE has probable cause to arrest them while they’re doing it. I don’t support people interfering or obstructing ICE, but standing 20 feet away and filming or blowing a whistle is not obstruction.

What I’ve seen is ICE agents losing their shit and shoving people because they can’t emotionally handle being observed and yelled at, both of which are legal. I would not be able to handle that either, I’d lose my shit too, but I’m not an ICE agent.

I’m sure there are protestors crossing the line too, they arrested a bunch of people for breaking windows at a hotel the other night. I just don’t see the need to add conspiracy charges if they can just directly charge them with obstruction when it happens.

Yeah, this is what I don't get. People have the right to peacefully protest (and they should). However, once you actively get in the way of official federal policing business, you are no longer a peaceful protester. Interjecting yourself into already stressful situation will only make things worse for you.

> However, once you actively get in the way of official federal policing business, you are no longer a peaceful protester.

That is absolute nonsense. You can be a peaceful protestor whilst still inconveniencing the authorities.

Possibly the most famous non-violent protestor of all time is the unnamed man who stood in front of a column of tanks at Tiananmen Square.

Another contender would be Gandhi, who promoted civil disobedience for peaceful protesting.

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