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Comment by mistermaster1 | Hacker News Reader

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This comment betrays a misunderstanding of history and of what fascism is and doesn't even engage with the article's points. A totalitarian fascist state does not come into being all at once; it emerges in steps that tend towards that outcome, steps which the article discusses in detail. Furthermore, that nascent fascism can be defeated through electoral means does not preclude it from being fascism.

So the only point someone could conceivably write this article, in your mind, would be the moment after its writers and platforms would be subjected to state-sanctioned punishment for uttering it?

I'll accept a little front-running then, if you don't mind.

No they could write it in another state, anonymously, or on more underground/less mainstream established platforms than one of the oldest publications in the history of the republic. More like what’s happening with regards to Iran. Also, front-running also implies that there’s an order for fascism coming up. So the intent of establishing fascism is preceded by a bungled and visibly brutal and horribly implemented performative “operation” that this massacre by ICE is? That makes no sense. This is not an order for fascism that an article is sort of front-running protectively. The better analogy is a media entity predictably calling one extremely messed up thing another extremely messed up thing, and leaving a massive vulnerability for their side. Messed-up-thing-promoting folks will use articles like this a year from now after ICE ceases operations, effectively issuing a silent “apology” of sorts and curtailing the violence, to promote the next messed up thing they want to do (which may be less messed up than the ICE massacres but still would be quite messed up and avoidable).

Every pessimistic approximation isnt always good. We lose credibility when we keep doing it.

> True fascism would not allow the massive criticism and outrage (including by active lawmakers and heads of state & local governments) that recent events have reasonably led to.

It hasn't yet captured the whole country. The parts of criticism they have had the power to silence, they have already silenced. Who's in the White House press corps again?

When they will capture all the power they need, the criticism will be silenced.

I fear that we might not see a definitive Democratic win though at the midterms. I think your country is already past the point of no return and your population is just not getting it yet.

Thank you for your personal, individual wisdom that exceeds that of 230+ million eligible US voters in the 2026. That about settles it, we are past the point of no return so we should do absolutely nothing. In fact any action would be irrational, a waste of effort and a misallocation of time and energy vs spending it with our families and/or on ourselves. And somehow, I am the person who is defending the so-called fascists and ensuring a place “shining their jackboots” (your peer here used this expression to try to denigrate/attack me)? It must really hurt to be so smart and to be able to see all of the future perfectly.

I'm honestly sorry, you're right to be angry. I'm not trying to demobilize you. I'm despairing myself as well, I hope for the US to keep its shit together. But I just don't think it's looking great. Sorry, really, I don't want to make fun of the shit the US is in.

I think I _am_ guilty of using a poor intellectual facade trying to make sense of this what the fuck historical moment we're in. Because trust me, my country is in a dangerous place as well.

Thank you for taking ownership. Unfortunately when the online “gang” effectively amplifies itself (either through correlation of their voices as they see something that isn’t there; or in actual coordination/racing to echo one another) the emergent effect is one of ostracization and it becomes easier to see how some people become radicalized and even get cornered into dishonestly defending worse and worse actions & positions which they never would have otherwise defended. I chose not to do that, but only because this isn’t the first time that I’ve been mobbed by groupthinkers who want to defend whatever article or tagline they are promoting to the point of attacking me for making any point that seems critical of any part of their current bible of choice.

Ah yes, the “no true fascism” fallacy. Thanks for posting your half-thought out defense of the party that is murdering citizens in the street! I’m sure they appreciate your attempts to keep their jackboots shiny.

Can you point out how I was defending a party? I’m simply saying that the US isn’t a fascist state yet. We can engage, debate and discuss. People are actively out in the streets of MSP and watching and confronting these agents and the incidents are being documented, spread widely and analyzed. Calling it fascism isn’t productive nor is it even front running. I am willing to bet against any of you that this insanity perpetrated by poorly trained or untrained agents running amok in the midwest will be old news by the end of the year and no not because it has been subsumed by some worse class of atrocities. It will have ended, ICE will have ceased these sort of unchecked “operarions” and largely due to public outrage and scrutiny. Actual outrage, scrutiny and genuine activism, not writing articles from an armchair that mischaracterize this as fascism or racism. That sort of thing only perpetuates and makes the rabid crazies who actually support these actions in light of the tragedies sink their jackboots in even harder and empowers them more despite them being in the minority.

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