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Comment by memen | Hacker News Reader

Is that true? EV have much higher emissions of micro plastics and pfas (or variations thereof) due to increased tier degradation. EVs are typically way heavier than similar ICE due to the batteries and combined with the higher torques, tires wear faster.

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> EV have much higher emissions of micro plastics and pfas (or variations thereof) due to increased tier degradation

I find those claims highly suspect: I own an EV and haven't had to change the tires more often than I did on a gasoline-powered car. My EV bought in 2021 still runs on original tires and they're fine (although I do change from winter to summer tires, so that's 2 sets technically).

I suspect black PR, and there is always a grain of truth in black PR: emissions are indeed likely to be higher. Probably not "much higher" and probably not in a way that really matters.

Just because a tire lasts as long doesn't mean it isn't wearing in different ways. EV specific tires are a lot different than their ICE counterparts.

This isn't "black PR". It's comparing apples and oranges. But throw non-EV tires on one and you'll definitely chew those tires up much more quickly [0][1][2][3].

[0] https://www.wheel-size.com/articles/how-are-electric-vehicle... [1]: https://www.pepboys.com/car-care/tire-care/ev-tire-wear [2] https://recharged.com/articles/do-ev-tires-wear-faster [3] https://www.evuniverse.com/whats-the-difference-between-regu...

But my Ioniq 5 is lighter than a large number of ICE SUVs on the road.

The class of the Ioniq 5 isn't lighter than it's ICE competitors. It may be lighter than a larger SUV, but the tire changes drastically as the GVWR increases.

An Ioniq 5 can weigh over 1000lbs more than a Honda CR-V, for example (depending on trim & battery).

While it is true that EVs are heavier than the equivalent ICE vehicle, and that this causes more tyre and road wear.

1) this is not the only or even the overriding factor when comparing the two. There are engine emissions (none for EVs) and braking (EVs have regen braking)

2) There is a trend for larger, heavier ICE vehicles in the USA as well. Big trucks and SUVs. It is very selective to argue against EVs in this way without also arguing against these.

I have a heavy and high performance EV (Tesla Model S) and I have replaced my tires twice in the last six years. So it’s about the same as an ICE vehicle in that regard.

One thing that differs is brake wear. My car is ten years old and still on its original brake pads and discs. The regen braking is amazing for avoiding mechanical braking. So that means less particle emission from brakes, compared to ICE.

>"I have a heavy and high performance EV (Tesla Model S) and I have replaced my tires twice in the last six years. So it’s about the same as an ICE vehicle in that regard."

Well no, it's not "the same". We have things like physics to tell us that more torque and more weight means more tire wear, despite your anecdote. There are even studies on this. They also have a greater impact on road wear.

EVs have many advantages over ICEs. I don't understand why people have to lie and say they are worse nowhere.

https://www.jdpower.com/business/press-releases/2024-us-orig...

They were saying "the same" in context of how often you have to replace the tires. Now, EV tires are often a slightly different compound (and more expensive) to deal with the higher weight and torque. I don't know how that plays into the particle emissions from those tires though.

It is amazing the amount of bs and grasping at straws that the oil company will push to keep their amazing polluting stuff going on

No I'm sure fracking and pipelines and all the crap the oil industry needs just to exist does not have any pfas or micro plastics

Micro plastics pollution is a relatively new problem and thus many direct and indirect effects are not yet fully understood. Moving emissions from CO2 (gas) to micro particles (solid), means emissions will be deposited more local to roads. Moving emissions from 'big oil' installations to the road, means more local emissions/deposits nearer to your home and backyard.

Additionally, due to the fourth power law [0], you only need 20% weight increase to obtain a 2x road wear. Asphalt/concrete production is also accompanied with substantial emission, although progress is made to reduce it [1].

Is there a break-even for weight vs emission reduction? And if so, is it somewhere between personal and cargo vehicles or is it 'EV always better'?

Are we trading 'well-known and bad for global environment'-emission for 'poorly-understood and possibly very bad for local environment on a global scale'-emission?

Of course, with the available information EVs seem to be the better solution, but it should not prevent us from researching/solving unknown effects or being careful choosing a single solution on such a large scale.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_power_law

[1] https://www.pbl.nl/uploads/default/downloads/pbl-2022-decarb...

> A 1988 report by the Australian Road Research Board stated that the rule is a good approximation for rutting damage, but an exponent of 2 (rather than 4) is more appropriate to estimate fatigue cracking.

> The accuracy of the law of the fourth power is disputed among experts, since the test results depend on many other factors, such as climatic conditions, in addition to the factors mentioned above.

It's incredible one agency in the '50s did some small limited tests and everyone will parrot it as if it's tablets handed down from God.

"The oil companies! The oil companies!". Yeah, they only lie, nobody needs their products! We all hate it! Buy a car from a good company with honest leadership, like Tesla (made of oil products)!

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