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I can understand you don't want to spend effort for throwaway code.

  >  in a serious production project, but I'd still use an AI agent, except I'd make sure I understand every line it puts out.

That isn't going to cut it. You need to understand the problem domain, have a deep design taste to weigh current and future demands, form a conceptually coherent solution, formalize it to code, then feed back from the beginning. There is no prompt giving your AI those capabilities. You end up with mediocre solutions if you settle for understanding every line it spits out. To be fair, many programmers don't have those capabilities either, so it also a question of quality expectations.

I believe you can use LLMs as advanced search and as a generator for boilerplate. People liking it easy are also being easy with quality attributes, so anyone should be self aware where they are on that spectrum.

  Of course I wouldn't vibe code in a serious production project, but I'd
  still use an AI agent, except I'd make sure I understand every line it
  puts out.

So you value your ability to churn out insignificant dreck over the ability of others to use the internet? Because that's the choice you're making. All of the sites that churn your browser for a few seconds because they're trying to block AI DDoS bots, that's worth your convenience on meaningless projects? The increased blast radius of Cloudflare outages, that's a cost with foisting on to the rest of the internet for your convenience?

Thanks.

This is such a... unique angle. Of all the things to get angry at AI for, web crawlers and the impact on cloudflare outages are the ones that really grinds your gears?

Not unique at all. eg a few days ago https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46608840

The difference is context: that link is a service saying they're having to make some changes, because of AI crawlers.

The context here is it's a HN post about someone being excited about AI bringing them back to coding, in response to a comment on that HN post with someone else being excited about the useful things they've been able to do about AI.

In that context, it's a unique choice to respond with a load of confrontational and rhetorical questions about AI being bad because crawlers and cloudflare outages. It reads like the they just wanted 2 excited programmers to feel bad about themselves for using AI. It's not really the sort of response I'd expect here.

> Creating a polished, usable app is just so much work, and so much of it isn't fun at all (to me).

Then don’t do it. No one is forcing you. Are you also going to complain that building airplanes and ensuring food safety are too much work and not fun for you? Not everything needs to be or should be dumbed down to appeal to lowest common denominator.

Alternatively, go work at a company where you’re part of a team and other people do what you do not enjoy.

> I'm sitting here building polished apps in a fraction of the time

No, no you are not, guaranteed. “Polishing” means caring about every detail to make it perfect. If you’re letting the LLM make most of it, by definition it’s not polished.

This is coming across as the "hobby police" here telling everyone what they can and can't do... I'm sure it wasn't meant that way but it reads that way.

The airplane company wont let you vibe code their systems anyway, and rightly so. the rest of us can just do whatever we like.

> Then don’t do it. No one is forcing you.

No one is also keeping me from doing what I want to spend my time with on my days off.

> Are you also going to complain that building airplanes and ensuring food safety are too much work and not fun for you?

No, because this isn't remotely comparable to weekend hobby projects. What a weird question.

> No, no you are not, guaranteed. “Polishing” means caring about every detail to make it perfect. If you’re letting the LLM make most of it, by definition it’s not polished.

I guess we have different definitions of "polished" then.

> No, because this isn't remotely comparable to weekend hobby projects.

I agree. But those also don’t need:

> intuitive UI, logging, error handling, documentation, packaging, versioning, containerization, etc. is so tedious.

Some of that, sure, but not all of it. Either it’s a weekend hobby project or it’s not, and your description is conflating both. A hobby is something done for fun.

There are tons of stuff that are weekend hobby projects that need most of that. Presumably they are building something that actually does something, in which case deploying it to where you need it to be, logging the issues it has, writing up how it works so you have the info 8 months from now, etc are all very relevant.

And they're all often a pain to actually do.

And AI makes most of that pain just...go away.

Stop trying to gatekeep what other people do in their free time. No one is forcing you to join them.

>> so much of it isn't fun at all

thats why it was valuable.

All things worth doing are hard.

There are plenty of things that are hard that are not valuable. At least not valuable enough to matter.

This is why we have compilers rather than writing assembly by hand.

He said fun, not easy. Sometimes it's precisely doing brainless stuff over and over again that becomes hard, like writing a template displaying a table of your results or implementing filter and pagination on a web app. I don't feel like I'm growing anymore when doing those things. Or even for some tests. Or when you need a Bash script automating menial stuff. (Still you could find new perspective on things.)

> Sometimes it's precisely doing brainless stuff over and over again that becomes hard, like writing a template displaying a table of your results or implementing filter and pagination on a web app.

I always have a hard time taking this complaint seriously, because the solution is absolutely trivial. Write a snippet. Have you really been out there, year after year, rewriting the same shit from scratch over and over? Just make a snippet. Make it good and generic and save it. Whenever you need to do something repeated on a new project, copy it (or auto-expand if you use it that often) and adapt. Snippet managers are a thing.

Or better yet, refactor your app so it doesn't require so much boilerplate - surely if you're doing the same thing over and over again you can just extract it into it's own function / method and abstract over it.