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Comment by toomuchtodo | Hacker News Reader

I wish you peace, warmth, and that you find your people. It was, and continues to be, hard work, but I found mine.

Why, you ask? Because your comment seemed like you had read only the title and nothing else I wrote here, and wanted to contribute off the cuff links you had stored up. And you barely even bothered to summarize any of what they contain. I've been reading this book by Dr. Vivek Hallegere Murthy ever since you linked it, and it's definitely got some great insights into it, that mirror my own thoughts and struggles with this. But in your comment, it felt like a mere afterthought. And maybe that's fine, maybe that's fair, you're a busy guy and have your own stuff to do. It's not against the rules or general moral code to write a drive by comment. But it just feels like a low effort comment. Which is why I wanted to downvote it. And now that it's surfaced higher than mine, it just feels like pouring lemon juice on a papercut.

Are you serious right now? I don't mean this in an insulting way at all, but I can see why you're dealing with loneliness. Take some time to self reflect and figure out why you lashed out here(seriously, really think about it or show some friends this dialogue without context and ask what they think, in person). Like the commenter, I hope you find you find your community, but you are far from the path. Your attitude is fixable, nobody is playing down the problems here and instead people who were in your shoes empathetically showed you a way out, but you need some serious self reflection.

In case it's not clear, original replier's comment here is absolutely correct and it doesn't necessarily have to be in a religious pretext (re: the church article), that's just a palpable example for most people. Neighbors, community centers, hobbies, etc-- these all require work on everybody's end and you must commit to these relationships to create a semblance of something to revolve your life around in lieu of drowning in loneliness.

For sure, my church citation wasn't about religion specifically, but that the decline in third spaces in general and a lack of community can be directly connected to early deaths and deaths of despair.

That's right.

Church does not have to be a church of faith, it can well be a church of reason.

What matters is that people with shared values get to spend time together on a regular basis without getting into status games that might eventually show up no matter what the church.

I've tried a few types of churches of reason and they are pretty sad, honestly. Hard core, dedicated, non-religious person here, so I'm not saying that people should go to Church, but I've never seen anything approximating a Church of Reason that would have satisfied my (admittedly minimal) social desires.

I hear you. For me things that have worked are those that are built around a hobby -- travelling to the wooded hills, astronomy, music recitals, caring for strays / abandoned pets.

Try https://www.sundayassembly.org/

Interesting suggestion! Thanks!

I agree!

I wrote that comment back when he had only one or two links, and this post had 4 comments anod 2 points. I stand by what I said: I wish I could have downvoted it for being a low effort drive by comment.

To be blunt: what you said was completely out of line. You were mad that he wasn't responding to your other comment (why wasn't it in the OP if you wanted people to read that stuff before responding?). You then got mad that his comment was voted higher than yours (again, putting all that in the OP would've fixed that, not to mention complaining about vote counts is straight up childish).

Just take the L man. You lashed out for no good reason, the person you responded had a hell of a lot more grace and tact than you showed this entire exchange, just learn from it and move on.

Agree to disagree. And as soon as I get to 500, I'm going to downvote his comment on principle alone, even if it happens next week. I'm not mad, and it's not about anything other than acting on what I believe to be right.

Argh! I can finally downvote, but not that comment, since it's a direct reply to me.

Alas, irony emerges victorious.

You asked how to solve the loneliness epidemic. I provided citations and recommendations. Are you asking me how to be the person you need to be to make bids for friendship and connectivity to establish community? And where to find people you can have an opportunity to make connections with? I can do that too.

> I'm trying to reach those people who feel the way I feel have no way of connecting with anyone, or at least feel that they don't. Do you have any new ideas of how to achieve this?

Go out and find people looking for other people. Volunteer and find events and gatherings scoped to building connections between people. Third spaces are in decline [1] [2], or in some places, non existent. This will be work. It will not be easy. You will need to work on managing the feelings of rejection and shallow people not genuinely interested in you or building a friendship (boundaries are important in this regard; have them, communicate them, and enforce them). Success is not assured. But your only choices are to try or not.

From your comment:

> I also had it hammered into me as a kid that nobody wants me around, nobody could ever love me, I'm a failure, a burden, a creep, a weirdo, and nothing but a bothersome nuisance that nobody would ever want to spend 30 seconds alone with. I'm trying to reject these thoughts, but it's difficult when you have nobody to talk to. It's like pulling yourself up by your bootstraps. I wonder how many people have the same issue. I've made a few friends in person, but I rarely get to see them.

In regards to this you commented, I highly recommend therapy if you can access it. It will help. This is an unnecessary burden to be carrying through adult life, and a professional might help unburden you of these feelings. The healthier you are emotionally, the easier it will be to create and maintain interpersonal relationships.

Does all of this suck? Oh yes, certainly. But we play the hand we're dealt to the best of our ability. Good luck, in as genuine terms as I can communicate in text. If you feel like I can provide more value with more questions you might have, I will do my best to help.

[1] Closure of ‘Third Places’? Exploring Potential Consequences for Collective Health and Wellbeing - https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC6934089/

[2] Vox: If you want to belong, find a third place - https://www.vox.com/the-highlight/24119312/how-to-find-a-thi... | https://archive.today/TYDCG - May 7th, 2024

(tangentially, I recommend replacing "idiot who doesn't understand anything" with something more like "I am early in my journey to understand, but I look forward to the experience"; love yourself first, we are all learning and sharing for the portion of the timeline we share, and it is okay to not know if we continue to want and try to learn)

I agree you (OP) must work on developing a positive view of yourself. Maybe therapy. Don't overlook clergy even if you're not religious. Religion is as much about fellowship and how to live a fulfilling life as it is about worship. Some churches (e.g. unitarian) are quite inclusive and are much more spiritual than dogmatic.

But you will find it much harder to attract friendships if you come across as needy or wanting to unburden a lifetime of problems on your new prospective friend. Not to say a longtime friend can't eventually handle some of this, but it's not a good way to start off.

I would say avoid groups that are focused on personal success or networking. These tend to be full of people who are looking for an angle or benefit for themselves, not people genuinely trying to develop friendships and connections with a community.

I'm a highly secular person and I see people constantly say things like "spiritual but not religious/dogmatic" and I cannot figure out what that is supposed to mean. What does it mean?

>In regards to this you commented, I highly recommend therapy if you can access it. It will help. This is an unnecessary burden to be carrying through adult life, and a professional might help unburden you of these feelings.

I'm not the GP, but I have the same experience to them. I have been in therapy and on psychotropic medication my entire adult life, that's 2.5 decades. I'd love to know when exactly the "unburdening of these feelings" happens.

It might never happen for some, and that is terribly unfortunate (but not a reason to not make the attempt). I have no solution for that part of the human condition besides sympathy for bad luck.

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