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As the ACLU notes, Obamas use of ICE is similar to Trumps. I believe if people are sincere, they should condemn either neither or both.
If they refuse to condemn Obama, but do condemn Trump, I do not believe they can make a good argument about compassion. That may change the conversation, which I think would lead to a more logical discussion.
Obama is a great orator, and a historic figure. If we don’t remind people that he used ICE much like Trump did, we could end up with a historic injustice. If you call Trump a monster for his use of ICE ( as the ACLU does ), you should also call Obama a monster ( also as the ACLU does ). It’s only fair.
If it’s still not clear, I’ll give a historical example. Bill Clinton molested several women, paid out large sums of money, etc. The man was a lech. But women’s organizations supported him and gave him cover for several years. ( I.e. NOW, the national organization of women ). Clinton was named ‘Father if the year’ by some organization. Can you imagine how this galled people on the other side of the political aisle? It seemed there was no end to the hypocrisy. Finally, thankfully, #MeToo came along and the truth was acknowledged.
That’s why I keep throwing this out there. The truth must be acknowledged. You can’t call Trump a monster without calling Obama a monster, too.
Except no one is disputing this "truth". You're making up a strawman. Clearly, no one on the Left cares to defend Obama over his use of ICE, you must have realized this by now. But you keep bringing him up whenever ICE does anything illegal or abhorrent (which is daily now). Why is that? And I am yet to hear you condemn anything.
> Can you imagine how this galled people on the other side of the political aisle?
Not really, when the current President was Epstein's best friend, a known pedophile, and is embroiled in several rape affairs. Clearly the Right does not care about women, they even ran on an anti-feminism agenda. When Trump said "grab her by the pussy" during the campaign it did not make any waves in right-wing circles.
On the other hand, outside of the most dickless liberal circles, people on the Left are extremely quick to criticize/condemn democratic leaders: Biden, Obama, Clinton... Even Harris, people were extremely mad over her awful campaign.
Meanwhile, I am yet to see a single republican criticize Trump over literally anything. The guy did multiple crypto-scams, received obvious bribes (one of them an entire plane) from islamic dictatorships, is knee-deep in a major international pedophilia scandal, etc. Dead silence from the right.
Like right now, you keep deflecting whenever ICE does something bad. I have not seen you even acknowledge that ICE stealing from citizens is bad. You keep doing whataboutisms for some reason.
Because he doesn't[0], he's just a troll that likes hearing anyone to the left of him say that Obama Was Bad.
Here’s Mitt Romney on Trump: https://pbswisconsin.org/watch/newshour/mitt-romney-s-full-s...
Here’s George Bush: https://enewspaper.latimes.com/infinity/article_popover_shar...
So I don’t understand why you say Republicans don’t criticize Trump. As you can see, they criticize him very harshly, for a number of things. Please explain what you meant.
Now for the Democrats, please show me an article about a Democrat disowning Obama for his use of ICE. The bigger the politician, the better.
Republicans in Congress (the ones who can hold him accountable) are clearly sycophantic towards Trump, but you know that, hence the irrelevant politicians you named.
I think you made your point, anytime ICE shoots at civilians or steals stuff from citizens, it's OK because Obama or ACLU or whatever Fox News told you to think. Got it.
You are yet more living proof that republicans are completely unable of going against Trump on anything. You guys will keep deflecting, changing the subject and using other fallacies to avoid it. (These three dudes you mentioned were de facto excommunicated from the GOP, Pence was even threatened by the Jan 6 thugs that wanted to hang him for not stealing the election).
If your next comment does not contain an acknowledgement of the most basic fact that "ICE stealing from citizens is bad", (something they did not do under Obama btw), this conversation is over.
That's a wild non sequitur in the the middle of your false equivalency. If you can't see the problems right in front of your eyes, and are still complaining about Obama, then you're lost.
As a peer comment notes, bad behaviour _under_ a former administration is distinct from bad behaviour fully embraced, endorsed, and backed _by_ the current administration.
As an aside, the "did you see what Obama did" is a poor response; while I'm certainly not a "literal communist" by any stretch I do urge you to watch a very short clip that specifically highlights the silliness of Obama V. Trump responses:
* https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JD7Ol0gz11k
If it helps to grasp my stance here, I'm not a US citizen and view all US administrations through the lens of not entirely reliable partners.
Thank you for the video, it highlights the discussion I think is needed.
I look forward to you linking to evidence of Obama's whole hearted endorsement of ICE agents under his administration threatening children with rape.
Clearly without such equivilance of support of excess from the top the cases of ICE under Obama and ICE under Trump are very very different.
Here’s an article where ACLU says agents patted a teenagers behind and threatened her with rape but this was on Obamas watch.
https://www.aclu.org/news/immigrants-rights/border-patrol-wa...
Have you got something that says something similar happened on Trumps watch?
If not, I suppose an argument could be made that Trump is better than Obama, at least in this regard.