Hacker News Reader

Comment by rayiner | Hacker News Reader

Tech companies and their approach to labor is just sickening. They complain constantly that we don't let in enough H1B's. Are they offering to indemnify the government in case they need healthcare, unemployment; their children need public education, etc? They complain constantly that the publicly funded universities don't graduate enough STEM graduates to meet their needs. Think about that--they complain with no hint of irony that the public doesn't train enough workers for them at the public expense!

And let's not even start on collusion to keep down salaries, non-competes and other bullshit.

View on HN

They complain constantly that the publicly funded universities don't graduate enough STEM graduates to meet their needs. Think about that--they complain with no hint of irony that the public doesn't train enough workers for them at the public expense!

At the same time, our esteemed corporate chieftains want the government out of their way. Our great economic miracle involves shifting the costs of production elsewhere. This is called putting the doctrine of individual responsibility into practice.

H1Bs residing in the US pay the same tax (including social security and medicare) as the citizens.(so if their kids need public education, they are also paying for it in a way)

H1Bs are not entitled to unemployment benefits (or any form of government sponsored healthcare). In fact, technically, they are supposed to leave the country the same day they are fired otherwise they are illegally staying.

H1-B is a big step towards green card status for many people, and green card holders are entitled to all of these things.

After having paid the taxes with no safety net, the constant risk of deportation hanging over their heads, aaand a ridiculous green card process that can take a decade or more. (My parents are a biophysicist working for NASA and a mechE working for a printer company and it took us FOURTEEN YEARS).

14 years of taxes is quite a bit at an effective 35% rate without the promise of social security of any kind.

I'm not justifying the H1-B system. I'm justifying our country's exercise of controls on immigration.

The situation is almost exactly the same across our entire immigration system, the H1-B Visa is no exception.

Only in rare cases do immigrants not pay the same taxes (through bidirectional tax treaties) and most of them don't receive the same benefits, if any.

The point isn't whether immigrants pay the same taxes. The point is that society makes certain commitments to everyone who lives in the US, and everyone who lives in the US makes certain reciprocal commitments to the society. A society legitimately controls immigration into the country by virtue of those reciprocal commitments.

At a most fundamental level, a nation is a group of people who commit to protect each other in case of attack. If you're in the US, we'll protect you from foreign invaders whether you're a citizen, legal resident, or H1-B holder. Because we make that commitment, we get to decide who crosses our borders. We get to decide based on whatever factors we want whether we want to let someone emigrate.

"H1-B is a big step towards green card status for many people, and green card holders are entitled to all of these things."

No that is the point. With this statement you are justifying the fact that Visa holders don't receive the same commitments as PRs and citizens because they may or may not receive a GC in the future. Many H1-Bs have to leave the US before they even get a chance to get a GC (all the while paying their taxes and not receiving much of the benefits).

This makes them second class citizens.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_American_internment

You seem to be seeking the moral high ground for justifying a country's exercise of its ability to curtail immigrants.

As the responses are showing, the moral high ground is largely unavailable for this particular motion.

On the other hand, a country can do what the heck it pleases on letting people in, which is generally the bedrock of its powers anyway, so why is this an issue.

All immigrants know that they are the mercy of a bureaucracy they have to please. Not at the mercy of some high minded ideal system.

- ninja edit for clarity and brevity.

> H1-B is a big step towards green card status for many people

It is a big step, but it's still hard to get green card status unless you really luck out with both the company you work and the manager(s) you report to.

And then they offer to pay the government to do said training - http://seattletimes.com/html/edcetera/2019276642_microsoft_h.... Oh the...irony?

It's disingenuous to say that they're offering to pay to do the training. They're offering to pay for marketing incentives to get people to do STEM.

"Microsoft is not simply trying to solve the immediate worker shortage. The software company proposes boosting the H-1B visa fee to $10,000 to raise money for a STEM-version of the Race to the Top federal grant program spurring education reform in schools."

$10,000 pays for about one year of K-12 education in the cheapest states, and about 6-7 months in a state like NY.

H1B workers don't get government assistance. They get deported if they stop working.

Children born in the US to H1B workers are US citizens, just as you and I are.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com