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Comment by georgemcbay | Hacker News Reader

The only Surface I'm interested in is the Pro version. Without access to the wider world of Windows software, I'll just keep using my ASUS Transformer. Based on the lack of a release date and likely significantly higher pricing for the Pro I'll probably just end up buying someone else's hybrid Windows 8 solution (eg. ASUS seems like a good bet based on my positive experience with the aforementioned Transformer).

I may be wrong due to my tech geek biases but I think leading out with the "RT" model is a mistake. The only super-compelling thing Windows 8 tablets bring to the table for me is the possibility of running "real" Windows software when using it as a laptop.

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I think that is a big tech geek bias. It's really hard (impossible) to put ourselves in the shoes of the non-nerd, but we should try. I don't think the non-nerd will care as much as you do, or if at all. I think that leading with the RT model was actually a great call, because it will jump start the market of tablets that can only use modern apps and then in turn give a lot of incentives for developers to make them. If they led with the x86 surface, then the app market would have been a lot smaller come end of year.

Non tech geeks are going to buy the iPad though, surely. They are about the same price and the iPad is a far more elegant and simple solution. Chances are that the non tech geek will also own an iPhone/iPod Touch and the ability to share apps and music etc. is definitely going to appeal.

At the price MS has this I am finding it hard to see who it will appeal to except tech geeks and maybe corporate.

"They are about the same price and the iPad is a far more elegant and simple solution." - Elaborate. You didn't give any substance at all and that's an empty statement. How is it more elegant? It is an accessory. You can bet that the Microsoft marketing blitz will pound on this. They will drive home the point that you can write your term paper on your surface. I guarantee it.

The only good argument against the surface right now is pre-existing ecosystems. People have apps/music/etc purchased on other ecosystems and that makes it tougher to drive home adoption among these 'entrenched' customers. But if the product is appealing enough, that can be overcome. The jury is still out on whether people will drop their iPads in favor of Surfaces.

Haven't we put the "it's an accessory" bit to bed yet? It's awfully tired.

Also, the second someone needs to use that keyboard's bizarre-o trackpad to drive the software to write their term paper, you can bet the utility of having "traditional" apps on your tablet is going to be more carefully considered than simply assumed.

The argument against the surface remains that when you need a tablet, a 'full desktop OS' is not a feature you care about. And when you need a 'full desktop OS', the surface may not be a very good one.

So the comparison will, again (and as it almost always does) hinge on what people need or want these things for and how good each product is at performing those tasks in reality.

Also, pretending that all the iPad brings is ecosystem is just as silly as flatly stating the iPad as more elegant.

We, as a collective community of tech industry members, have put it to bed. But that isn't at all true on the consumer side. For example: In one of my classes today, we were talking about how we're going to be taking our exam online. We come into class, bring our laptops, and write out essays and submit them. The teacher explicitely mentioned not to bring a tablet, even going further as to saying that doing that would be silly. A girl who usually brings an iPad to class on a regular basis agreed with the professor and mentioned that "yeah, it's better for consumption". That in itself, proves to me that it has not been put to bed yet.

And on the ecosystem thing I agreed with someone else who posted below that I meant more than that.

"The only good argument against the surface right now is pre-existing ecosystems."

It isn't just ecosystems, it is massive mindshare (and keep in mind I say this as someone who is anti-Apple).

For a lot of people I know who don't own tablets yet tablets basically are "iPads", the way web searching is "Googling" or adhesive bandages are "Band-Aids".

"Oh is that a Droid iPad? I've heard of those, but never saw one before".

Yes, I agree. That too, mindshare is very important. Almost as important as marketshare! I meant to lump this in to my statement but didn't elaborate on it.

Not just the ecosystem. A reliable company behind it.

Remember the PlaysForSure fiasco.

I could invest lots of money on surface digital content, and lose every cent of that content if suddenly surface is not the market leader and MS wants to steer in another direction.

By elegant I mean the iPad hardware/OS is more focussed and better defined. Microsoft compromises by trying to blur the world of laptop and tablet, the iPad is all tablet.

The MS solution is less elegant because it lacks confident direction.

Even corporate is a hard sell on the non-Pro version because then they lose their VPN, their bitlocker, etc, and it is going to take a while for the "BYOD"-style enterprise security apps to start appearing for Windows 8 RT.

WinRT supports BitLocker (with remote wipe) and all native Windows VPN standards. You are not going to get the install-able VPN connector 'applications' (Cisco etc) on WinRT, but if you have a standards compliant VPN this is not an issue.

Corporate is a very difficult sell for sure. But they tend to cling to old technology much harder than consumers.

Corporate is more conservative with putting money into something, that will not bring tangible benefits. In many companies still have process for deciding, whether someone needs laptop or desktop will do. Yes, the difference may be 50-100 EUR, but multiply that by the size of workforce and you get a serious coin.

Consumer market on the other hand is much more emotional. Consumers will buy something without clear reasons, just because they want it.

The "old" tablet technology is ... the iPad. Well, "already established in the enterprise" is a better description, but I think that's what you meant.

> It's really hard (impossible) to put ourselves in the shoes of the non-nerd

Really? It doesn't seem that difficult. I imagine if the Surface RT is easy to use and good (hopefully great) at basic web browsing, email, social networks, etc. while having a decent selection of apps (this is the hard part with a new ecosystem), non-nerds will be fine with it.

I agree with you :), but I was just mentioning that for most people, looking at the world through a different pair of lenses is difficult.

Non-nerds generally tend to seek advise from nerdy in their vicinity (social circle). Sort of trickle down effect. The impact is quite significant now, given that nerds and semi-nerds are aplenty.

True, but it is also true that nerds HATE with a passion to be referred as the de-facto helpdesk for those they will give any recommendation. I would never EVER, recommend any Linux distribution at the time being to any of my non-nerds contact, in favor of a product that is simple to use (even at the cost of some freedom) and very hard to break.

I actually switched my parents from XP to Ubuntu few years ago (because any support would involve travelling). Since then, the most serious problem was yanked ethernet cable.

You are lucky. When I tried that there was no Ubuntu, only RH and SuSe, and of course, Slackware. Nothing like OpenOffice or KOffice either.

My mom did not like LaTeX and went back to MS Word.

Very true! As a company selling a new product you have to get approval from the nerds to have a successful product. I like this.

That might be on purpose -- releasing the RT model first just to force the rest of the manufacturers to also release something on Win8's debut, without releasing a Pro model to directly compete with the initial sales. As much a reference design as part of the marketing campaign -- ensuring Win8's launch looks concerted.

Exactly same thoughts. But I will give my Transformer to my wife and get the Pro, simply because I want to experience Windows 8 "how its meant to be" and because the Surface will have a big modder / hacker community.

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