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Comment by lm28469 | Hacker News Reader

It's high but it really depends on your lifestyle and appliances.

If you have a heat pump water heater and heat pump based floor heating you'll use 1/4th of the energy as the same house with resistive water/floor heating.

A house which barely passed regulation from 2010 will consume 5-10x the energy of a certified passive house.

etc.

That being said I think you have to draw the line somewhere. I'd much rather have inefficient appliances (resistive boiler/heaters) and be fully solar powered than spend 50k in heatpumps and other gimmicks that are rated for 10 years and cost a kidney in maintenance and the eventual replacement.

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Heatpumps are not a gimmick - they're an excellent technology with lots of efficient and effective uses :)

Heatpumps, Shmeetpumps

Overly complex and fragile in the long run, the savings are meaningless if you're already self sufficient. I'd much rather spend the money in insulation and self sufficiency than these voodoo appliances.

That's my reasoning my new build house with plenty of land. In other scenarios it might be more beneficial to go for them.

Heatpumps are a proven technology, have been in use for more than a hundred years, and are one of the most efficient (and thereby cost-effective) ways to manage heat.

They're also technically simpler and have fewer components that can wear out. And they're a single system that works both for cooling and heating, rather than needing multiple system investments.

The majority of experts believe that its the future technology stack to manage heat, not a gimmick at all.

That having been said, always start with good insulation first.

Thwre is nothing voodoo about heat pumps. Not really that complex and not at all fragile either.

Heat pumps are no more fragile than air conditioners.

Which are famously reliable and cheap to service...

In my experience they are quite reliable if they are quality brands. My parents have central AC for 20 years with no need of repairs

Yes, and that's why I have none.

No fridge? That's a heat pump.

Not everyone lives in an area where they can afford not to have one, especially with climates changing and temperatures hitting higher/lower extremes.

It all comes down to building techniques, insulation, airtightness, eliminating thermal bridges, &c. There are also many low tech solutions for heating/cooling, such as air/air heat exchanger couples with ground/water or ground/air heat exchanger at a fraction of the price and a fraction of the maintenance.

Of course the average american living in a mcmansion which wouldn't pass regulations in 1992 Poland cannot use such solutions, but really it isn't a problem of climate, you'll find passive houses from africa to norway and everywhere in between, most of them without heat pumps

>heatpumps and other gimmicks

Anecdotally, two of the smartest people I know love heat pumps—doesn’t Technology Connections too?

Was probably this:

  Heat Pumps: the Future of Home Heating

https://youtube.com/watch?v=7J52mDjZzto

It depends where you live, where you get your electricity from, for how much, &c. It's an amazing tech don't get me wrong, and of course youtube tech nerds love these kind of things, no surprise here, I just don't think it's the silver bullet everybody imagine it is.

Heatpumps can now be had for less than £10k .. if you don't have to replace your radiators.

I do think more people should consider mini-split reversible AC in the UK, but the subsidy system specifically excludes it.

UK government subsidy support for air-to-air was announced a couple of months ago:

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/discounts-for-families-to...

Heat pumps aren't particularly expensive though and they can provide cooling.

Who spends $50K on heat pumps? They're not anywhere near that expensive.

A lot of people in America, sadly. Mini splits cost $250 to install in Japan and frequently $10k/head in the USA.

I'm talking about geothermal water/water installs for central heating.

No one is heating their place with air/air heat pumps besides americans who haven't figured out that heating spaces via air is shit tier in term of comfort and efficiency

> No one is heating their place with air/air heat pumps besides americans who haven't figured out that heating spaces via air is shit tier in term of comfort and efficiency

At least here in Finland a lot of people do. Very popular choice when replacing old oil furnaces (and as a "replacement" for direct electric heating offcourse)

Geothermal heatpump is something people mostly think about when building new.

Air heatpumps with the inside unit start from around 1000€ and 300€ to 500€ for the install. The price is mainly based on the size of the house (and in big houses you will need multiple or one with multiple inside units)

A fireplace for the couple really cold weeks to cut down the electricity bills are popular but people had those even before the air heatpumps so nothing new really.

Having one place to handle humidity, temperature, and exchange of fresh air makes ductwork the king of comfort and efficiency.

Separation of concerns is the king of avoiding pricy maintenance and headaches.

You can already do most of that with a passive heat recovery ventilation system coupled to a ground/water exchanger. All systems are independent and the most high tech equipments you need are fans and a water pump

It’s a tunnel for air.

Only using ductwork for heat recovery ventilation without also using it for heating and cooling means more complexity, instillation costs, and maintenance issues etc. Further moving air allows you to use dramatically less material for heat exchangers.

Net result higher efficiency, fewer things that can break, fewer locations something can break, and lower risks of water damage to your home etc.

The entire country of New Zealand would disagree with you there - air heat pumps are our primary source of heating.

When your annual temperature range is -40 to 40 C (or a bit over 100 F) central air HVAC is a life saver.

says the guy calling heat pumps "voodoo appliances"

I forgot HN doesn't understand humor, I'll try to turn it down next time my bad.

>No one is heating their place with air/air heat pumps besides americans

I am, and I am not an american, lol.

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