Comment by Tichy | Hacker News Reader

Comment by Tichy | Hacker News Reader

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I think it is unfair and invalid argumentation (which doesn't prove that her claims are untrue, but also imo doesn't help support them). The analogue is parents saying "you'll understand it when you are older". Either you trust your parents or you don't, but you can not verify that claim logically while you are young. Hence I find that kind of thing not useful for a debate. Traditionally I think those statements have only helped to make kids angry :-) You may say that parents were usually right, but I don't think so.

KS or anybody else are welcome to state their own experience, but arguing "I was like you before my eyes were opened" is creating a fake additional anecdote. Just because person A went from opinion/situation X to opinion Z, it doesn't imply that all people with opinion/situation X will eventually come around to opinion Z. That line of reasoning just dismisses a persons argument without giving arguments.

Sorry I can't describe it better - I guess it just goes against my sensibilities for "fair debate". Just my opinion, obviously.

I told my personal story in a comment to Laura, which I then sent to Faruk. That's not a "fake additional anecdote", it is what actually happened.

It means no more -- or less -- than that. Just one person's story. That I changed MY views in no way means anyone else will. Had I thought this through, I would not have written it because you're absolutely right -- it was not useful.

I have never witnessed sexual harassment in any company I've worked at, but I have few doubts that it exists. While I mock the silly corporate training videos, I completely understand why they exist.

Every person who changes their view has an opportunity to change somebody else's by talking about it. Holding mysoginistic practices up to the light is the best way to dispel them (like so many other vile habits in society), so I disagree with you that it isn't useful.

People in technology want to believe that it is a wonderful world where your capabilities determine everything about your success, to the point that egos get wrapped up around it. Calling BS, that the tech world isn't a pure meritocracy, seems to cause people to question whether their current position is truly justified, and that seems to hurt some people's egos. Personally, I think those egos need to get trodden on.

I definitely think it was useful and thank you for writing it.

I understand the point that its like saying "you'll understand when you're older", but I also hope we here are wiser than the children who resent their parents for making that argument. That we in fact can see that its possible to be blind to what is happening around you just because you personally haven't experienced it.

Your anecdote is very useful; thank you for writing it! I really appreciate your input. In general, your writing has been greatly appreciated.

Without observation, we wouldn't seek facts and we wouldn't use the scientific method. In the end, we want to explain what we see. What we see is vile... I'm optimistic we can end that. Every discussion is relevant and every experience worthwhile.

Again, thank you.

By fake additional anecdote I didn't mean your story, I meant that you took Laura's story and turned it into an anecdote supporting your view, because having the same beginnings, surely her story would eventually end the same as yours.

Anyway, as I wrote in another comment, I actually thought your personal story is interesting. I just couldn't cope with the "I learned that I was wrong, and so will you" aspect of it.

sorry - deleted my comment before i saw your reply. decided i didn't want to get into this mess.

for anyone wondering what the context was, the basic point was that it is extra information and so is useful.

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