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Comment by newsclues | Hacker News Reader

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Even more minor issues and not going to those more abhorrent extremes, some countries like Japan or China have much more social shame for public misbehavior. The United States used to have more social shame for public misbehavior. This is why people are quiet on subways, there's less petty crime, and higher grades. There's shame for doing poorly in school, not excuses for how ducks don't climb trees or whatever. There's shame for people that litter. I am all aboard this train personally.

AFAICT shame can usefully & productively (& affordably) replace incarceration. Bring back stocks in the public square ?

Shunning, too. It strikes the fear of God into Amish.

The same argument can be made in favor of child abuse.

How do you teach people to feel shame?

I don't belive you can make a logical and humanitarian case for shaming people for who they're attracted to, whether it's children, animals, etc. They didn't choose it, and from the outside it looks like a horrible fate that I wouldn't wish on anyone. Our society would be much better off with compassion for those people, and it would likely result in fewer actual victimizations than our current approach.

Conflating attraction with actually doing bad things is sloppy reasoning.

None of these feel good things matter when someone victimizes a child because they mistakenly thought people will forgive them for their natural tendencies. You can argue from points of logic until you are blue in the face but talk to parents and you'll be laughed out of the room or have an angry mob on your hands.

I am also going to guess that you don't have children. I've seen all of my friends with children change how they think. Never, ever underestimate the emotional investment that family brings to the political table. I've witnessed card carrying Democrats vote Trump with no qualm.

> None of these feel good things matter when someone victimizes a child…

That's very true, yes. But many of us are attracted to certain characteristics without compulsively raping anyone possessing them; I like blonde hair! The parent poster is pointing out the distinction between attraction and action.

I find it deeply uncomfortable that, in some cases, pedophilia can be fixed by brain surgery. https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/pedophile-lost-ur...

I have a daughter, and a son on the way.

Again, we're not talking about whether someone should be harshly penalized for victimizing a child. We're talking about whether we should shame someone for a glitch in their brain over which they have no control. What is even the point of shame in that scenario? What exactly are you hoping for?

I would further argue that the shaming you're talking about makes it all worse! It makes people much less likely to seek help, and the shame spiral drives all kinds of anti-social and destructive behavior.

Again, I don't think you can make a logical case, and you clearly didn't even try here.

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