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Comment by barishnamazov | Hacker News Reader

This is pretty cool, but I hope it isn't used for human-readable config files. TOML/YAML are better options for that. Git diff also can be tricky with realignment, etc.

I can see potential usefulness of this is in debug mode APIs, where somehow comments are sent as well and are rendered nicely. Especially useful in game dev jsons.

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Yaml is the worst. Humans and LLMs alike get it wrong. I used to laugh at XML but Yaml made me look at XML wistfully.

Yaml - just say Norway

The Norway issue is a bit blown out of proportion seeing as the country should really be a string `"no"` rather than the `no` value

YAML strings should really require delimiters rather than being context-dependent.

Yeah, but it's a fun slogan. My real peeve is constantly getting the spaces wrong and no tooling to compensete for its warts. If there were linters and test frameworks and unit tests etc for yaml, I'd just sigh and move on. But current situation is, for instance in ADO Yaml: "So it's time to cut a release and time is short - we have a surprise for you! This will make some condition go true which triggers something not tested up till now, you will now randomly commit shit on the release branch until it builds again."

Stuff that would have been structurally impossible in XML will happen in yaml. And I don't even like XML.

> If there were linters

Available and kept up-to-date. I found for Python, PHP:

https://github.com/j13k/yaml-lint

https://github.com/adrienverge/yamllint

Also .net:

https://github.com/aaubry/YamlDotNet

And NPM/js:

https://github.com/stoplightio/spectral

Just say Norway to YAML.

This is a reference to YAML parsing the two letter ISO country code for Norway:

    country: no

As equivalent to a boolean falsy value:

    country: false

It is a relatively common source of problems. One solution is to escape the value:

    country: “no”

More context: https://www.bram.us/2022/01/11/yaml-the-norway-problem/

I think it would be better to require quotation marks around all string values, in order to avoid this kind of problems. (It is not the only problem with YAML, but it is my opinion of how any format with multiple types should require explicitly mentioning if it is a string type, but YAML (and some other formats) doesn't.) (If keys are required to strings, then it can be reasonable to allow keys to be unquoted if the set of characters that unquoted keys can contain is restricted (and disallowing unquoted empty strings as keys).)

We stopped having this problem over ten years ago when spec 1.1 was implemented. Why are people still harking on about it?

Current PyYAML:

  >>> import yaml
  >>> yaml.safe_load("country: NO")
  {'country': False}

Other people did not stop having this problem.

It might be that there’s some setting that fixes this or some better library that everyone should be switching to, but YAML has nothing that I want and has been a repeated source of footguns, so I haven’t found it worth looking into. (I am vaguely aware that different tools do configure YAML parsing with different defaults, which is actually worse. It’s another layer of complexity on an already unnecessarily complex base language.)

The ancient rule of ”use software that is updated with bugfixes” certainly applies here.

A new spec version doesn’t mean we stop having the problem.

E.g. kubernetes wrote about solving this only five months ago[1] and by moving from yaml to kyaml, a yaml subset.

[1]: https://kubernetes.io/blog/2025/07/28/kubernetes-v1-34-sneak...

The 1.1 spec was released about _twenty_ years ago, I explicitly used the word _implemented_ for a reason. As in: Our Yaml lib vendor had begun officially supporting that version more than ten years ago.

Note that you reference 1.1, I think that version still had the norway behavior.

1.1 partially fixed it, so that strings (quoted ”no”) did not become Boolean false. 1.2 strengthened it to remove unquoted no from list of tokens which could be interpreted as Boolean false.

> 1.1 partially fixed it, so that strings (quoted ”no”) did not become Boolean false.

Do you have a source? Afaik v1.1 didn’t introduce such a change, v1.0 specified the same behavior for quoted strings, i.e. in v1.0 a quoted “no” would remain a string “no” as well.

Because there's a metric ton of software out there that was built once upon a time and then that bit was never updated. I've seen this issue out in the wild across more industries than I can count.

I’m not here clanking down on Java for lacking Lambda features, the problem is that I did not update my Java environment past the 2014 version, not a problem with Java.

I think this mixes up two separate things. If you're working with Java, it's conceivable that you could probably update with some effort. If you're an aerospace engineer using software that was certified decades ago for an exorbitant amount of money, it's never going to happen. Swap for nearly any industry of your liking, since most of the world runs on legacy software by definition. A very large number of people running into issues like these are not in a position where they could solve the problem even if they wanted to.

That’s about 99% of the argument I am making. The problem is legacy software and bad certification workflows, not the software being used.

If I’m working with Java it’s indeed conceivable that I could update with some effort.

If I’m working with Node it’s conceivable that I could update with some effort.

If I working with YAML is it not conceivable that I could update with some effort?

PHP is stupid because version 3 did not support object oriented programming.

CSS is bad because version 2 did not support grid layouts or flexbox.

Why should I critique on these based on something that they have fixed a long time ago instead of working on updating to the version which contain the fix I am complaining about?

There is a gradient limit where the onus shifts squarely to one side once the spec has changed and a number of libraries have begun supporting the new spec.

Because once a technology develops a reputation for having a problem it's practically impossible to rehabilitate it.

Now add brackets and end-tags, I'll reconsider. ;)

Brackets works fine:

    Roles: [editor, product_manager]

End tags, that I’m not sure what that is. But three dashes is part of the spec to delineate sections:

    something:
        setting: true
    ---
    another:
        thing: false

Yaml works really well with LLMs (not to generate but to consume). So yes, we use it all the time in our service.

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