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Comment by baq | Hacker News Reader

I’d love an XFCE (or even gnome tbh) environment on a properly built laptop, unfortunately only Apple is able to build something that works in all areas that matter: sleeps when lid closed, wakes when lid opens, touchpad and display don’t suck.

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I don’t see anyone in these replies really addressing the touchpad. Would love to hear from people who have used macbooks if they have found a Linux machine that matches the Apple trackpad.

“Never tried a MacBook, my Linux machine trackpad always worked perfectly” is the usual response I get when I press for a response… but without trying Apple (on this one thing) you’ll never understand until you’ve experienced the downgrade.

Around 2018 I used a Mac at work and a Dell XPS at home and I had zero issues with the trackpad on the Dell. It was a bit smaller than the Mac's, but I actually preferred that because it was so large I'd sometimes move the mouse accidentally. Back then I thought PCs had finally caught up with Mac trackpads, but was extremely disappointed when the next XPS had one of those trackpads that is just integrated with the laptop cover (it's like a touchscreen instead of a pad inside a cut-off, if that makes sense). My guess is they changed for the aesthetics, but it was so bad that I returned it. I haven't used a good trackpad on a Linux PC since that Dell.

I switched from mac to linux for my personal dev machine 5-6 years ago but kept using macbooks at work until recently. The keyboard and trackpad are slightly better on macs in my experience, but the difference is small enough that I never think about it.

One caveat is that I've never been a power user of trackpad gestures, so if that's central to your workflow I can't say how the platforms compare.

Overall I'm immensly happy about dropping Apple for Linux, it was definitely the right decision. The initial migration takes a bit to work out but the beautiful thing with Linux is that if you don't like something enough you can usually find a way to change or fix it; with Apple you're left screaming into the void.

only slightly better? really?

> but without trying Apple (on this one thing) you’ll never understand until you’ve experienced the downgrade.

I don't doubt you find something special about the macOS trackpad experience, but I've used a Mac every day at work for 3 years and I genuinely don't feel any more or less fond of its trackpad than I do the one on my Framework laptop running Linux. They're both trackpads that do trackpad things. Shrug.

Do you use a mouse most of the time? That’s the other variable I wonder about. When I used Linux I found it normal to plug in a mouse whenever possible, but when I switched to macOS and got used to the trackpad I stopped using a mouse or keyboard, even if I’m plugged into a bigger screen.

On my Framework, I only use the trackpad, don't have a mouse for it. My work mac laptop lives on a desk so I mostly use a mouse for it, but also use the trackpad plenty when I head to a conference room for meetings etc.

One thing you might've missed in the last decade, is Linux relatively recently gained a new click mode that works like macOS does. One finger left click, two finger right click, two finger scrolling, etc.

Since it's Linux, it is very configurable and may not be enabled by default depending on your distro.

https://wayland.freedesktop.org/libinput/doc/latest/clickpad...

https://smarttech101.com/libinput-fix-your-linux-touchpad-us...

However, more user friendly distros will hopefully(!) do that configuration for you or present a nice UI to enable it.

Thank you, this is the sort of response I need to take framework seriously. I asked because had genuinely never found anyone who could make an honest comparison (I used Linux in pre macOS days but that was a decade ago).

> unfortunately only Apple is able to build something that works in all areas that matter: sleeps when lid closed, wakes when lid opens, touchpad and display don’t suck

In my case I'd add:

- Chassis that doesn't flex like crazy

- Battery life good enough that I typically don't need to think about AC outlet accessibility

- Can sit in standby for upwards of a week without battery drain forcing it to shut down

- Is inaudible except when maxing out CPU or GPU for several minutes

- Has a screen panel with a resolution that's either 1x or 2x UI scaling native

The number of laptops in the market that check these boxes is disappointingly tiny.

FWIW that all worked out of the box for me on my Intel Framework. But yes, it's fair to say there are tradeoffs for each solution. Maybe Apple's cons are getting big enough these days. Worth considering.

I have an oled thinkpad running fedora that has never had a sleep issue. Excellent touchpad as well. Thinkpad X1 Carbon.

For me the touchpad experience is not just about the hardware. I got a Magic Trackpad for my Linux desktop hoping that it would at least be somewhat comparable to my MacBook. But scrolling and gestures are nowhere near as consistent and fluid as in macOS since the software support just isn't there.

As a fairly typical example, getting Firefox on Linux to actually scroll smoothly takes googling and fiddling with settings. Gesture support is hit or miss. On macOS, Firefox behaves just like any other native app in this regard.

Firefox on Fedora on X1 Carbon and scrolling just works. Maybe it was different in the past.

If you “fling” the page, lift your fingers off, and then tap with two fingers, does the page come to a stop?

Just tested - it does indeed.

This was a few weeks ago. IIRC, the issue with Firefox was not that it didn't scroll but that the scrolling wasn't inertial unless you changed some settings.

My Magic Trackpad feels more consistent on Linux, Force Touch notwithstanding.

Which version? I have a X1 Carbon from, uhh, 2017? It supports S3 sleep. I'd think about an upgrade, if only I wasn't worried about sleep issues. I run Debian if that makes any difference.

Actually now that I think about it, my visceral reaction is one of dread: a feeling the trouble will be more than the benefit of a new computer.

I have a thinkpad p1 with popos, but it doesn’t sleep properly. Closing the lid causes it to be super active. I have to lay it down up side down so the ventilation gaps are not blocked, otherwise it overheats. Burned one SSD this way.

Did you buy this from system76, or did you just install Pop!_OS on hardware you already owned?

Fixed it with the help of claude, it quickly helped me diagnose the issue and fix it. The drivers for the discrete nvidia graphics card had suspend disabled. Enabling it enabled automatic suspend when closing the lid.

Installed it myself, it’s not a system76 but a Lenovo thinkpad.

> all areas that matter: sleeps when lid closed, wakes when lid opens, touchpad and display don’t suck.

All of these seem to be fine on my thinkpad (true, I probably have somewhat lower standards for passable display). Battery life sucks a bit, what I can usually fine outlet somewhat to plug into.

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