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Comment by ghshephard | Hacker News Reader

As a (very) avid Kindle user - I'd add the following to your list of features to make the Kindle "as good as a physical book":

  o ability to loan to others
  o physically robust (I've cracked three (3) screens)
  o  extended reading time (on at least two 10 day vacations
     I ran my hyperjuice extended battery down 
     recharging my K3 every couple days)
  o random-access speeds/location
  o support for color.

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One data point: I'm also a very avid Kindle user, and I want exactly none of these.

I thought these were actually universal desires - so I'd be interested in hearing why?

o Robust - You don't mind breaking kindles?

o Ability to loan to others - You never lend books? To anyone?

o Extended Read Time - How on earth couldn't you want extended battery life. It drives me crazy to go on vacation and have a fully charged kindle run out of battery. I would kill for a solid 100 hour battery life.

o Random Access - You never want to flick through a book? (Admittedly, the K3 has the +/- chapter view, which is good, but not as good as being able to flick back and forth in a real book - particularly textbooks or a complex Game of Thrones reading)

o Support for color - Really? You don't want any color in your books? Not even Text books?

With the possible exception of "Loan to others" - I can't understand why every single one of those isn't a "Must have" in order for the kindle to be as good as a paper book for everyone. Also, and not coincidentally, they also make for a better eBook experience as well.

I would love to switch to "eBook Only" (I've purchased about 200 books so far for my kindles over the last several years) - but, for some things, I continue to purchase paper books.

I should have mentioned that I also have an iPad. I basically use the Kindle as a small paperback replacement, and use the iPad for everything else.

I whip out the Kindle when I want to blow a Saturday breezing through the latest John Sandford cotton candy or awesome-seeming fan fiction, and I read most technical books and my Instapaper backlog on my iPad. So maybe my desired set of Kindle features is smaller than the average Kindle user, or maybe this discussion is proof that I have no idea what the average Kindle user wants.

- I've owned my (4th-gen, non-touch) Kindle for ~9 months, and it has held up just fine. Maybe if/when I break it, I'll wish for more robustness.

- I've never lent books; maybe I should!

- I haven't been without power for long enough to substantially discharge my Kindle's battery yet. I went to Belize for 9 days with it and had power the whole time, although I did more diving than reading ;-)

- Nope, I've never longed for random access. I've flipped through paperbacks before, but that's a feature I can easily live without.

- Nope, I definitely don't miss color. When I want to lay back and feel like I'm reading a little paperback from my neighborhood bookstore, I reach for the Kindle. When I read a textbook and inspect diagrams or want to look at pretty pictures in Flipboard, I grab the iPad.

I'm just weird with tablets though, so this data point may be worthless. I've considered buying a Nexus 7 (or its rumored successor) just to lay in bed and read code, and the official GitHub app for Android is the best tablet code-reading experience I've found.

I understand now, and I think I see where you are coming from - but I think we're speaking at cross purposes to each other. You don't want these features that I've described on your kindle, because you don't see your kindle as serving 100% replacement for all books.

I think the point that Gruber, the OP, and I were trying to make (though I could be wrong) - is that we believe the ultimate goal, the end-game for a kindle, is to be in every way as good as a book. Books don't run out of battery, don't shatter when you sit on them, textbooks have color, and can be flipped through.

I think you'll agree - that unless the Kindle has (at least) all of those features, you won't be able to replace 100% of your book usage with one - and you'll need to turn to other sources (either your tablet, or paper, etc...)

Power, for me, is probably the killer feature. I can be careful with the kindle, I rarely read/use textbooks when I'm not taking a course, and I can work around (painfully) the ability to flip through a book - but particularly when we are heading off grid for a while, trying to keep the kindle charged is always a hassle, and I'm always dragging along at least one, if not two hyperjuice batteries in my packout (though, admittedly, one of them also serves to keep my iPhone charged for GPS/Map usage)

Of course, on the flip side, I'm bringing my entire 200+ book library with me....

I don't see the value in a "100% replacement for all books" for the same reason I don't see any value in "100% replacement for all cooking utensils" or most other things. I can do a lot of things with my favorite knife, but that doesn't mean it would be better with a can opener attached to it.

Obviously longer battery life would be fine, but I wouldn't trade any size or weight for it. A color screen would be fine but I wouldn't trade any contrast or battery life or additional expense for it. A stronger case would be fine but I wouldn't trade cost or weight for it, and so on. It's a great device for reading novels, papers, long blog posts that I send to it. My ipad is a great device for movies and magazines. My computer is a great device for doing research and copy/pasting code snippets and playing games. My radio is a great device for listening to music or news in the car. My TV is a great device for watching movies and shows.

That's a mere 6 devices that pretty well cover my information and media needs. Not too bad considering I use at least twice as many different tools to make dinner.

I use a Sony PRS-350 and I'm not hurting too bad in most of these:

Robust: I've had it for almost 2 years, and most of that time didn't even have a cover.

Ability to loan to others: Since I have to strip the DRM anyway to read kindle books, no problem there.

Extended Read Time: Nice to have, but it will charge off of my phone charger (micro USB) so not a big deal.

Random Access: This is the one that hurts. Humans have great spacial access "It's about half way down the page maybe 3/8 of the way through the book" Not a big deal for most novels. I still use dead-tree reference books

Support for Color: Can't remember the last time I read a book with color, other than graphic novels.

I don't see these as anywhere near 'must haves'. For reading fiction, random access and colour support are not necessary. Most people I have spoken to find the battery life mindblowing. And I am not sure why your Kindles keep breaking, but I don't even use a case and mine has survived a lot of rough treatment.

You can loan books, but it depends on the publisher. http://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html?nodeId=2...

Even if the Kindle was more flawed, I'd continue to use it. There is no way I'm going back to worrying about which physical books to take with me, or on holiday, and having to carry them everywhere. I haven't purchased a paper book since buying the Kindle.

I'm another data point, and here's my responses:

> Robust - You don't mind breaking kindles?

I won't break a Kindle. The Kindle is sufficiently robust, and then some.

> Ability to loan to others - You never lend books? To anyone?

No. The only exception was my textbooks in college.

> Extended Read Time - How on earth couldn't you want extended battery life.

How long does it take to read a book? My Kindle lasts easily 4 weeks, reading about 5-8 hours a week, and in that time I can usually get through a 1,000 page novel. I've never taken a trip where I would be without electricity for more than 4 weeks, and even if I were, I doubt I would want to lug around more than one 1,000 page novel.

> Random Access - You never want to flick through a book?

No. Again, textbooks are the only exception, but that's not really a common use case for e-readers.

> Support for color - Really? You don't want any color in your books? Not even Text books?

Maybe for textbooks, although all the textbooks I've actually enjoyed enough to keep after class have been monochrome.

> With the possible exception of "Loan to others" - I can't understand why every single one of those isn't a "Must have" in order for the kindle

And, conversely, I can't understand why many people would care at all about these issues.

I see no reason to not strive for more, but for the most part I disagree.

However, if they really wanted to advance ebook readers instead of just enjoying their dominant position and branching into androids tablets and phones, they ought to try to push the envelope.

Frankly, if I could legally get textbooks and have random access, color and better pen support... I would be so, so keen. I think there are education opportunities as well with good pen options and text books.

Why can't you buy your third grader a Kindle and have their math book, math workbook/worksheets, answers, tutorials, everything in their hand? The technology more or less exists for this.

PEN support! YES! How could I have overlooked that one!

So far this is how I manage these:

> o ability to loan to others

I totally boycott DRM'ed books. Period, absolutely non negotiable. Problem solved.

> o physically robust (I've cracked three (3) screens)

I have a metal-cased Sony reader since 2008. It's really, really robust. It's not as good as the latest readers, but good enough nonetheless (and it has two sets of metal-cast page turning buttons).

> o extended reading time

Strange, my Nook Color easily lasts a couple of days and my Sony PRS 3 weeks of avid reading.

> o random-access speeds/location

Yes, this one is unsolved so far, though the Nook color quick page slider is quite good.

> o support for color.

That's why I have both an e-ink and an LCD reader so far. When will readers with Qi screens come?

I want to be able to lend books, but that's about it.

> o physically robust (I've cracked three (3) screens)

Yeah, but as long as Amazon's willing to replace it free each time I don't really mind, and they have been so far.

> extended reading time

Were you using it for just reading? With internet turned off? I know javascript-heavy pages absolutely kill my kindle's battery, but if you're just reading it should be able to handle 10 days fine.

> o random-access speeds/location

Not something I ever want or need.

> o support for color.

No, no, a thousand time no. Keep it black and white so that the focus is where it should be, on the content.

Ability to loan is one I'd love, currently I have to break the DRM to let my wife read books we share, we could swap kindles (or share an account) but frankly it's easier to break the DRM.

My kindle (international v2) has a small crack in the screen after I dropped it on a hard floor when it wasn't in its case, also I have a few hairline cracks starting to appear in the case plastics. I'd guess it's not much worse than a laptop screen though.

Battery life - Still happy with mine spend around 2 hours a day reading while I commute and need to charge it around once a month. It's rarely been a problem and when on holiday I usually have either a PC or a micro USB charger. However I don't leave the 3G on.

Random access speeds - Don't jump around enough for this to be an issue.

Color - Not all that bothered to be honest.

However keeping buttons for page turning is an important feature for me. I was wondering how to get the paper white over here in europe but the reviews I've been seeing don't make me want to upgrade.

About lending... it makes no sense in digital world. Copying is another thing, however.

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