Japan law opening phone app stores to go into effect | Hacker News Reader

Japan law opening phone app stores to go into effect

www3.nhk.or.jp

185 pointsshlip34 comments

Nice. Someone is doing something. Apple's app store monopoly together with a 30% commission is a modern form of way-laying.

Meanwhile Google is trying to go the opposite way with mandatory developer registration/verification. In the US we will likely let them. Who needs freedom if there is money to make (and Google is just making a fake security argument.)

It shouldn't be that hard to do with my phone what I want, including accepting the consequences of my actions.

> a modern form of way-laying.

The best phrase I've heard used to describe this is "techno feudalism".

> Apple's app store monopoly together with a 30% commission is a modern form of way-laying

Most of the revenue from the App Store is from games (often in-app purchases from "free to play" games), so it's not surprising that they charge the same 30% platform fee that Nintendo charges.

Epic would of course like to pay lower platform fees to Apple for Fortnite than they pay to Nintendo (or Google) for Fortnite.

> But some public comments released by the commission expressed concern that the legislation could undermine user security.

I'm constantly amazed by how many people have fallen for this trick.

Some background:

Japan to open up Apple and Google app stores to competition (2023)

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36368735

Japan enacts law to promote competition in smartphone app stores (2024)

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40662176

iOS 26.2 to allow third-party app stores in Japan ahead of regulatory deadline (Nov 2025)

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45822302

JFTC's full 'Mobile Software Competition Act Guidelines' are available here : https://www.jftc.go.jp/file/MSCA_Guidelines_tentative_transl...

Curious to see how Apple and Google are going to circumvent this.

How is it different to what Apple’s done in the EU, with allowing for third party app stores there.

My admittedly amateur reading of this is that while it does promote competition, it also explicitly allows what Apple is pulling in the EU with its signing/review requirements for non-App Store applications. So no need to circumvent, they still retain control over what code is allowed to run on iPhones, albeit subject to restrictions on what reasoning they're allowed to use to refuse to sign an app.

It seems we in EU got the worst implementation for apple malicious compliance. It should have been similar like this one Japan from the beginning.

How does Apple's implementation in Japan differ from their EU one? TFA doesn't have many details that I see.

I'm waiting for the WebKit part - I remember this Japanese law also mandated Apple to allow other browser engines. The EU law effectively failed to enforce this.. I hope this will work better in Japan.

EDIT: more info here: https://open-web-advocacy.org/blog/japan-apple-must-lift-eng...

I really hope that Japanese developers take advantage of this situation to show off at least some of the creativity that's possible when we're not quite as limited by Apple's restrictions. I don't doubt that from a 'security' point of view, Apple is going to continue to enforce all sorts of things that make it wildly more difficult to use the supercomputer in our pockets than I would like. But nonetheless, perhaps this gives a bit of room to be a little more illustrative.

I know that from time to time people have argued that jailbreaking should have resulted in more creativity if it were going to, but with that tiny, tiny market, it's hard to believe that many developers, relatively speaking, would have been able to go hard at building something custom and impressive. With this larger market, hopefully folks will get the chance to do that now.

how does this interact with Google's push to sign all apps?

It doesn't. The law explicitly allows platform owners to require a verification/vetting process for applications, though it does limit the grounds on which Google is allowed to refuse to sign apps.

What is the enforcement plan? What will the penalties be for noncompliance?

I misread the title as "Japan jaw-opening phone app stores to go into effect"... strange imagery...

Thank you, Brussels effect.

Sony and Nintendo stores are still closed I see lol

Sony and Nintendo only sell games. They don't gate access to banks, investments, health insurance, auto insurance, news, movies, social media, car control apps, appliance apps, grocery stores, e-commerce, etc...

That's not to say Sony and Nintendo shouldn't be opened too but their impact is much smaller (game devs) than Apple (nearly all businesses)

Apple didn’t start that way though. Better to open it up now no? Also, a better law would be making the web first class, not adding more stores, with other gatekeepers…

> Also, a better law would be

No, the better law is the one that exists.

Yours doesn't.

Laws aren’t inherently good though… we will see what this does for Japan, I guess.

Are you implying that laws should never be changed?

It should be pointed out that they have way less of a monopoly on the market and way more gaming alternatives exist than Apple and Google.

Apple, Google. Two app stores that are basically necessary for existing in the modern world with a smartphone, which include apps covering Japanese government services.

In the gaming space, you’ve got PlayStation Store, Xbox Store, Nintendo eShop, Steam, Epic Game Store, GOG, a bazillion publisher storefronts, Apple and Google (again), Itch.io, physical media for the big 3 consoles at dozens of brick and mortar retailers, or even installing games directly with no store at all (Minecraft originated from its own online purchase portal).

> include apps covering Japanese government services.

These exist?

Honestly asking, I've never been there myself so my only contact to their government is via social media, and the Japanese people can't stop talking about how you need to go there in person for everything and how absolutely nothing official is digital

Train ticket apps

Japan has a government ID card (MyNumber) with a digital certificate which can be scanned using NFC on your phone to log into do taxes online, check on your medical insurance details (like what charges have been made and your prescriptions), and pension information. It can also be scanned via NFC to apply for financial services like credit cards/bank accounts online.

https://apps.apple.com/jp/app/id1476359069 https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=jp.go.cas.mpa

The switch eshop has youtube which I would count as social media.

This does not change that:

- The Switch is primarily a gaming device for entertainment purposes.

- The eShop overwhelmingly focuses on providing games for said entertainment purposes.

- It can be assumed that the overwhelming majority of people do not use the Switch, or expect to use the Switch, for general lifestyle purposes.

(That said, I wish we lived in a world where the eShop wasn't the only way to get digital games on the Switch, but phones have evolved to impact a large segment of the economy in many ways)

It’s sad how arbitrary people define things. Just make all types of digital stores support alternatives. Why are you even arguing about it lol… there’s no excuse to begin with.

I just got a PS5 and there are bunch of media apps available. I was looking at moving my AppleTV to a different TV and just using the PS5 on that screen.

On Apple platforms, for most of the things mentioned, web apps are an option and don't have any restrictions. This was Apple's original plan, but the people fought for local apps. Now companies fight for space on people's home screens. If they get an app on the device they can get more info and send notifications and things, which they apparently love. A lot of apps these days are glorified web apps. There are also the ones that exist for a one-time setup, which then sit on people's phones for years. It's kind of a mess the way companies use apps.

If anything, that’s their excuse for keeping it locked.

“Mr hacker man can trick you to download an app and take all of grandmas money from the bank”, “North Korean hackers can tap into your baby cameras unless we gate the app installation process and charge 30%.”, etc.

Open those, too

No doubt Nintendo was involved in the lobbying effort for this. Back in the 80s they successfully pushed to amend Japanese copyright law to ban game rentals.

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