What would you say C is beyond the high-level assembler ? genuinely curious (i kinda hold that belief personally but i'm not a c programmer by trade)
An assembly language program specifies a sequence of CPU instructions. The mapping between lines of code and generated instructions is one-to-one, or nearly so.
A C program specifies run-time behavior, without regard to what CPU instructions might be used to achieve that.
C is at a lower level than a lot of other languages, but it's not an assembly language.
Both ISA-level assembly and C are targeting an abstract machine model, even if the former is somewhat further removed from hardware reality.
Assembly is not about corresponding to exactly which gates open when in the CPU. It's just the human writable form of whatever the CPU ingests, whereas C is an early take on a language reasonable capable of expressing higher level ideas with less low-level noise.
I seriously doubt anyone who has written projects in assembly would make such comparisons...
With genuine respect, I believe this type of insinuation is rarely productive.
Someone might still have silly opinions, even if they have been paid to write assembly for 8-24-64 bit cisc, risc, ordered and out of order ISAs, and maybe compilers too. Peace :)
This should not be mistaken as appeal to authority, it is merely reasonable discrimination between those speaking from experience, and those forming opinions without experience.
If one believes those with experience has poorly informed opinions, they're always free to gain experience and associated perspective. They will then either have the fundamentals to properly push their viewpoint, or end up better understanding and aligning with the common viewpoint.
If you use
mov %i0, %l0
or %g0, %i0, %l0
What I meant to say is that since there is no way to directly write microcode, assembly is the lowest level software can target.
Nobody claimed that. It corresponds to the instructions the CPU runs and their observable order.
Also it's really only x86 that uses micro-ops (in the way that you mean), and there are still plenty of in-order CPUs.
It's still much closer to the input machine code compared to what compiler optimizer passes do to your input C code ;)
Here's a trivial example clang will often implement differently on different systems, producing two different results. Clang x64 will generally mul+add, while clang arm64 is aggressive about fma.
x = 3.0f*x+1.0f;
float fma(float x) {
return 3.0f * x + 1.0f;
}
fma(float):
sub sp, sp, #16
str s0, [sp, #12]
ldr s1, [sp, #12]
fmov s2, #1.00000000
fmov s0, #3.00000000
fmadd s0, s0, s1, s2
add sp, sp, #16
ret
.LCPI0_0:
.long 0x3f800000
.LCPI0_1:
.long 0x40400000
fma(float):
push rbp
mov rbp, rsp
vmovss dword ptr [rbp - 4], xmm0
vmovss xmm1, dword ptr [rbp - 4]
vmovss xmm2, dword ptr [rip + .LCPI0_0]
vmovss xmm0, dword ptr [rip + .LCPI0_1]
vfmadd213ss xmm0, xmm1, xmm2
pop rbp
retNow let's say you're working on a game with deterministic lockstep. How do you guarantee precision and rounding with an assembler? Well, you just write the instructions or pseudoinstructions that do what you want. Worst case, you write a thin macro to generate the right instructions based on something else that you also control. In C or C++, you either abuse the compiler or rely on a library to do that for you ([0], [1]).
This is the raison d'etre of modern assemblers: precise control over the instruction stream. C doesn't give you that and it makes a lot of things difficult (e.g. constant time cryptography). It's also not fundamental to language design. There's a long history of lisp assemblers that do give you this kind of precise control, it's just not a guarantee provided by any modern C implementations unless you use the assembly escape hatches. The only portable guarantees you can rely on are those in the standard, hence the original link.
Low level control over the instruction stream is ultimately a spectrum. On one end you can write entirely in hex, then you have simple and macro assemblers. At the far end you have the high level languages. Somewhere in the middle is C and however you want to categorize FASM.
Since optmizing compilers became a thing in the C world, and the WG14 never considered modern CPU architectures on what hardware features C should expose, this idea lost meaning.
However many people hold on to old beliefs that C is still the same kind of C that they learnt with the first edition of K&R C book.
This ACM article might be interesting to you, https://queue.acm.org/detail.cfm?id=3212479
Before dismissing it as the author having no idea what he is talking about, David Chisnall used to be a GCC contributor, one of the main GNUStep contributors back in the original days, and one of the key researchers behind the CHERI project.
1. All the reasons he cites that depend on "what the metal does" being different and quite a bit more complex than what is surfaced in C apply equally to machine/assembly language. So the CPU's instruction set is not a low-level language? Interesting take, but I don't think so: it is the lowest level language that is exposed by the CPU.
2. The other reasons boil down to "I would like to do this optimization", and that is simply inapplicable.