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Comment by andrewljohnson | Hacker News Reader

My mom sometimes talks about how she felt when John Lennon died, and I always sort of scoffed at the notion of being overwhelmed by the death of a celebrity stranger.

I understood what she meant when Steve Jobs died - I was really overwhelmed, I think because I derived such a big part of my life, livelihood, and identity from iOS over the last 3-4 years.

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I know exactly what you mean. iOS and the App Store gave me a chance to write and sell software that I wouldn't have had otherwise. I launched my first app in my final year of high school and because of the opportunities the platform provided I was able to:

- quit my part-time job

- decide to turn down a University offer (which I didn't really want to take but without any other real option I would have anyway)

- run my own business for the last 3.5 years

- spend 6 months in Canada

If it weren't for iOS and the App Store I would have went to University (something I really didn't want to do) and I would still have another year before graduating (not to mention the loans I would have to take out). Instead I've lived abroad, experienced running a business and had a lot of fun.

If it weren't for iOS and the App Store I would have went to University

I wouldn't write off things like that. Maybe you could have discovered something totally tangential but equally worthwhile somewhere else.

> overwhelmed by the death of a celebrity stranger

Jobs, like Lennon, was not just a celebrity. Both stood for what they believed and, by doing so, inspired countless others to do better. I know working with him was impossibly painful, but I wouldn't have thought twice at the possibility.

For some, that may sound masochistic, but, when my muscles hurt after a workout, I remind myself the next time I'll be running longer and faster. The people who work at Apple touch the lives of countless others and their quest for merging technology and art inspires us.

I don't think I would have been the same engineer I am now had I not used an Apple II+ as my first computer and had I not opened the case and been struck by its absolute elegance - if you are reading this, thanks, Woz, for being our profession's Mozart.

When I go over a post I made here (doing it right now, and there are few things humbler, in the literary sense, than a discussion board post), rephrasing everything until I'm happy with it, I feel satisfied you'll read something much better than what I would be able to do in a couple seconds, even if you miss the cut/copy/paste/type action.

The Apple II looked like a piece of grey plastic to me. So did the NES, but at least it was a lot more fun than the Apple II. Steve Jobs: the man who made purchasing consumer electronics a revolutionary act.

It depends on when you were born. If your first contact with the II was in the mid-90's, I would understand someone finding it underwhelming. It's also an understandable feeling if you were never curious enough to peek under the easily removable hood.

If, however, you compared it to its contemporaries, the S-100 machines with serial terminals, the TRS-80 and the PET, "revolutionary" would be the only possible word.

And, if you had the curiosity to peek under the hood of a II after taking a look inside an IMSAI, you'd understand what an elegant electronic design looks like. Every time I think that the computer in front of me is a not significantly evolved descendant of the original IBM PC, I despair a little. This triumph of the mediocre is not what I studied for.

> I don't think I would have been the same engineer I am now had I not used an Apple II+ as my first computer and had I not opened the case and been struck by its absolute elegance - if you are reading this, thanks, Woz, for being our profession's Mozart.

exactly the same here. same first computer

> I derived such a big part of my ... identity from iOS

I don't think that iOS would ever qualify as a cornerstone of my life. Why does it for you? Just curious.

It might be the part you cut out. GP mentions "life and livelihood," so its possible he's had success as an iOS developer.

Could be, but considering s/he has them in a list, I took it to mean that it was three independent clauses that s/he derived from iOS. If the identity was derived from the first two, I would expect it to be phrased differently.

For me, last year was a one two punch. Two people I paid a lot of attention to both passed within the span of a few months. First Jack Layton and then Steve Jobs. Jobs' death I knew was coming, but still struck me. While Layton's death ruined my day (as it wasn't immediately obvious that he would pass). I completely understand the feeling.

Jobs was a good business man and decent presenter, to compare him to John Lennon is utterly inappropriate.

What have you got against musicians?

It isn't his business accumen or presentation skills that people miss. It is his ability to inspire people to do better. His passion for doing something amazing.

In many ways John Lennon was the same. Read a biography of him and listen to outtakes from Beatles recordings to see what I mean.

Imagine if we all had that kind of passion and devotion to being and creating the best. Imagine if we all created such amazing things that Steve Jobs and John Lennon looked... normal.

John Lennon was a good songwriter and a decent singer, to compare him to Steve Jobs is utterly inappropriate.

;-) (everything is subjective and people affect other people in different ways)

I think you're unfamiliar with the extent to which he's affected the way we interact with the devices we use every single day.

Also, humans have spent a lot more time on computers and iPhones than they have listening to the Beatles.

Or going to the bathroom, driving their cars, sleeping... For example, I've only seen the Godfather once. My electric toothbrush, on the other hand? I use that every day! Take that Coppola! I think Jobs himself proved that software isn't art, and "hackers" are not artistes. I submit the following conjecture: The complaints about the app store approval process would be nothing compared to the shitstorm if Apple started blocking songs and films from iTunes. Remember, Jobs is the one who, if he had gotten his way, would make all software go through a central committee before you could use it. ¡Viva la Revolución! Also, eff the Beatles. Put on some Wilson Pickett or Motown, or your pick of their better contemporaries.

"I think Jobs himself proved that software isn't art"

How so?

Also, I don't think it's too crazy to say that the toothbrush has had a larger effect on mankind than The Godfather.

> I derived such a big part of my [...] identity from iOS

Get a life.

You have no idea why he says that, why must you be a complete asshole? He might be some sort of evangelist, or a guy who got some claim to fame through iOS or spends 10h/days working with or on it (the case seems to be the later). If what you do is part of your identity, the ecosystem you do it on also is.

I had the exact same thought when I read that, won't lie about it. But that doesn't mean you need to say it out loud. Substitute anything for "iOS/Apple" in that line, even something really dumb (say, um, "4Chan"), and it's still a dick thing to say.

I said I had the same thought, but in this particular case, that's my problem for opening a thread about Steve Jobs died a year ago, what'd you expect if not people sharing how big of an influence on their lives that man has been?

Some things need to be said, though the wording the poster chose was very poor. Something more beneficial to conversation like "I don't think that iOS would ever qualify as a cornerstone of my life. Why does it for you?" would've been a better move.

As for your other point, though--picking 4chan as a an example of a dumb life influence is not something I'd agree with. 4chan is a fairly unmoderated environment, whereas iOS is famous for being a heavily-managed walled garden.

I, for one, would rather list 4chan than iOS, if for no other reason than growing up in the technological equivalent of the burbs isn't something I'd be proud of.

> Something more beneficial to conversation like "I don't think that iOS would ever qualify as a cornerstone of my life. Why does it for you?" would've been a better move.

Nice. I tried a few formulations in my head, but none of them sounded very respectful, so I posted nothing. You give a good example of what someone just told me recently, that a phrasing criticism as a question helps avoid conflict.

And you're right about the 4chan thing, I should've said "something that many consider really dumb" because indeed I don't believe it's always a "dumb" influence (though it can often be so). I would raise an eyebrow at someone naming it as their most important formative influence, though. Unless their name is moot, maybe :)

Get some empathy. Many of us get livelihoods from what Steve and Apple built.

Don't be mean.

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