I recently took a union software job after I was laid off due to the CEO having a tummy ache one morning. Many of my new co-workers were explicitly interested in the company _because_ there was a union.
It's very imperfect but such is life. It's all new to me but here's what I've seen so far:
a) Employees have a voice. That doesn't mean that management is forced to do anything, but at least it's possible to be vocally opposed to eating a shit sandwich.
b) We are protected by a contract. If you are called into a police station, you ask for a lawyer for protection according to the law. If an employee finds themselves in an adverse meeting/situation with management, they can call in a steward to protect them according to the contract.
c) The union is us, the workers. We self-organize. It simply gives us a structural framework to work within. An entity for my employer to recognize. It's not ran by an authoritarian who waves a magic wand to make things happen.
That's it. There seems to be this weird idea that I can screw around for 40 hours a week and have the union protect my job. The union told us that we very much still have to do our jobs (duh).
---
To go on a little side tangent. Some countries, such as Finland or Norway, have no minimum wage because unions are (a) everywhere and (b) (allowed to be) powerful enough to protect workers. Honestly it's the best of both worlds. Less government intervention but at the same time workers hugely benefit from collectivization. They don't need to beg their politicians to raise wages - they do it themselves because they are given the power to do so. In the US, we instead rely on the lizards in DC to protect our wages because unions have been so stripped of power.
Could you say more about the differences you see between a traditional US union and a modern day guild?
In the US, doctors, lawyers, and to some extent professional engineers and other licensed professions operate under a somewhat similar model in that they restrict supply of that class of labor through some sort of accreditation, apply minimum standards for the profession, and otherwise stay out of your business for the most part.
Of course, simultaneously, they treat us as completely fungible. Every engineer is like any other in their eyes.
Such a perfect contradiction should surely spark introspection in employees... you would think.
I'm just saying, if workers want control over their working conditions, they have to recognize the power they have. It's up to them if they decide to wield it. You don't have to, and that's fine! Enjoy your long Bay Area commute.
Though yes, I'm not sure if that union still exists now. The point is that you do not have to prefer working at every company that has a union over every company that does not have a union. It's enough to prefer having a union over not having a union at any company you do work for.
No, seriously, literally what does Apple or Google have over Boeing as a company to work at? Compensation? If money is all that matters to you, then there are several Web3/AI/etc startups offering absurd cash comp that you can go and throw yourself at.
literally what does Apple or Google have over Boeing as a company to work at
Better engineering culture.
Better benefits.
More time off.
Bosses with engineering chops.
More flexible schedules.
Less likely to get laid off.
Perks like free food/massages/events.
Equity so as the company grows your pay increases automatically.
Large bonuses.
Are you actually serious you'd rather work at Boeing?
Doubtful, we can see the products that come out of them these days.
> Better engineering culture.
Doubtful, we can see the products that come out of them these days.
> Bosses with engineering chops.
Doubtful, we can see the products that come out of them these days.
The rest of your list is just "money" written over and over and as I've already said, if that's all you care about, that's your prerogative but let's not pretend that makes somewhere a "good place to work".
You're just that certain that the vast majority of engineers don't care about money, and aren't competing to get in there? And instead work at Boeing. Where you think the engineering culture is better...even though their software has a reputation of being awful.
You must know a lot more than everyone here. You should really enligthen us. All those terrible products that all those people are using from Apple and Google.
As an aside, what I said is that if all you care about is money, then that's your prerogative. Plenty of us aren't slavering to work at The Empire Of Ads because they give free food. Apple at least has more dignity as a company, although outside of their silicon (which almost no software engineer is going to touch) they've been spinning the wheel for years papered over by vendor lock-in and their pricing strategy.
> All those terrible products that all those people are using from Apple and Google
If your argument is "well people use them", then I have some potentially really shocking news for you about Boeing products.
Now this is probably the part where you say a lot about MCAS without necessarily understanding what it is.
I guess at least you didn't bother trying to argue that Google is a bastion of high quality products