Hacker News Reader

Comment by streptomycin | Hacker News Reader

I love Rap Genius, but haven't lyrics websites been repeatedly shut down in the past for copyright infringement? For instance, http://news.cnet.com/lyrics-sites-out-of-tune-with-copyright...

I always assumed that this was why all the lyrics websites were shitty and ad-infested - get money while you can, before you get shut down. And I also assumed that was why Google or Yahoo or some other competent people didn't make a nice lyrics website to outcompete them.

So what's different about Rap Genius?

View on HN

    I always assumed that this was why all the lyrics websites were shitty and ad-infested

About a year ago someone talked about lyric websites (either here or on reddit) and they explained that the reason they have terrible adverts isn't because they get shut down, it's because user retention is terrible. People only look for lyrics now and again[1], it's google -> click link -> read lyrics -> leave, there's no browsing, very few people have any loyalty to any lyric site, so they have to make as much as they can off that 1 visit because they probably won't be back.

[1] I think rapgenius solves this problem by providing value way beyond just lyrics

That still stems from the same problem, I think. If any lyric site became sufficiently comprehensive and widespread, it would get legal threats and end up dead. I occasionally want to look up some lyrics; I do a search, and end up with some results. If any of the sites I reached looked remotely reputable, I might remember it for the next time. None of them ever do.

I would constantly add "darklyrics" to my google searches simply because the site has little to no adds, anecdotal I know, but go figure.

Me too! Too bad it's only Metal, sometimes you need a break from Slayer to hear some RZA.

However, they are still questionably legal, and they do get shut down from time to time.

I did a bit of research, the largest website for lyrics is metrolyrics.com, they are owned by CBS (as of October 2011) and they license all their lyrics through a company called Gracenote (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gracenote) it's plausible that Rapgenius are also licensing through this company, or similar? Seems there is a way for a lyric website to exist legitimately.

The, ahem, "genius" of Rap Genius is that the commentary aspect goes a long way towards establishing fair use for the lyrics.

I think when a service is so obviously beneficial to the artist, like Rap Genius, the industry will find a way to work with them as opposed to suing them. This only helps theor bottom line.

Perhaps you can claim fair use if you're critiquing and understanding the work rather than just pasting it? A quick search turned up no legal troubles for Rap Genius thus far. They do have an email address for DMCA takedowns, however.

Based on Marc's reasoning given on the site, sounds like they have an easy pivot into annotating everything if the rights issue takes them out of the lyrics game...

But if the rights issue wasn't there, wouldn't Google build a competitor in a few days? It's a fairly simple website to make, and lyrics websites do a ton of traffic.

Google built something similar years ago--not a direct competitor to RapGenius, but rather a generic annotation platform for the Web.

Guess what? It's now discontinued: http://www.google.com/sidewiki/ It's not trivial to build annotation platforms that are both compelling and easy to use. Hat tip to RapGenius!

It is trivial to build a lyrics site, and it would be very helpful to search users who so often search for lyrics and wind up on shitty websites.

There was Apture which was doing similar. They got bought by Google last year.

http://techcrunch.com/2011/11/10/google-buys-contextual-rich...

Reply on news.ycombinator.com