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Comment by ch_123 | Hacker News Reader

A little over a decade ago, the patents expired on the MX switch design. The first clones (mostly from China) were cheap and terrible. Then came the ones which were cheap and almost as good. Then came the ones which were better than the originals, and eventually the ones which were more innovative too.

Meanwhile, Cherry kept making the same product line which they had since the 1980s, with relatively minor improvements.

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> Cherry kept making the same product line which they had since the 1980s, with relatively minor improvements.

Cherry was an American company that manufactured in the US until the automotive division was sold to a German company with keyboard switches thrown in. They moved production to Germany to capitalize on the perception of German quality. So, it’s not really surprising that it stagnated - it was a somewhat unwanted portion of a company and all the original folks got left behind.

> was sold to a German company... So, it’s not really surprising that it stagnated

As a German I _really_ feel this

Same here. Minor iterative engineering innovation has been the main theme for years in Germany. Somehow hoping for a wakeup call, but it is hard to be optimistic these days.

Not a tech company, but I feel strongly about this when it comes to LAMY (a fountain pen company). As far as I can tell their pens (notably the Safari and 2000) have stayed almost exactly the same for the past 40 years!

The only thing they tweak in these pens are the limited edition colors, which for the Safari they're releasing probably 3+ per year. I once met a guy who had a collection of over 50 Safari pens so I guess that market works out for them…

on the other hand, I am curious as to what the perception is of technical improvements in fountain pens in the past 40 years that they are not following?

This is exactly one example I had in mind. I visited LAMY about 8yrs ago as we were paid by local government to consult local companies for AI and data analytics applications. While I was deeply impressed by the value creation depth at LAMY, it was also crazy how anachronistic the operation was.

I associate “German engineering” mostly with Dieselgate nowadays. German-made tools are still excellent, but even there companies like Rösle or Vogel quietly moved production to China or India.

Interesting, do you have any examples of the latter two categories? Looking for a replacement for my Cherry-Keyboard.

I think magnetic hall-effect switches in standard keyboard are interesting innovation. Basically allows you to tune at what point of key press they activate.

Well, there's Gateron and Keychron.. But from what I gather Cherry still are considered the choice if you want longevity.

Cherry are more expensive than the rest but honestly I didn’t love the feeling of their keys. To be fair I was after a particular feel of very clicky keys.

For longevity I don’t feel the need to really differentiate between 100,000 actuations and like 500,000. Both are long enough and I don’t mind replacing the switches in a few years because let’s face it, it can be fun to try some of the new stuff and switching things up.

I found a mini-keyboard from dealnews.com for $20 with multicolor LEDs, that seems reliable.

I found another at Best Buy with red LEDs, but otherwise similar, and I gave it to my coworker. He wore all the letters off the keycaps before he retired and took it home, but it was otherwise reliable.

I think these were both blue switch-based.

Several genuine Cherry keyboards were in the e-waste pile at work, so I rescued them. I am using one on a test PC with rhel8.

https://www.dealnews.com/Redragon-S107-BA-Gaming-Keyboard-an...

https://www.dealnews.com/Aula-F75-Gaming-Mechanical-Keyboard...

https://www.dealnews.com/K4-RGB-Tenkeyless-Mechanical-Gaming...

I wish that Cherry could get a cut of these.

In this case, I'm talking specifically about the switches. There are various options from Gateron, Kailh and Outemu (including switches made by these companies but sold under different brands) which are widely regarded as superior to Cherry's options.

In terms of keyboards, a good all-rounder suggestion is to take a look at some options from Keychron.

IMO Outemu blues are better than Cherry's. They're actually clickier.

Unicomp took over the IBM buckling keyboard manufacturing. I like their clicky keys, but now their Model M costs US $189, a bit high.

Bought first board with swappable switches this month. And bit later about 70 different samples from Ali. Just the cheer quantity of that number is crazy to me.

Have to figure out if there is anything there when they arrive. But I think that is not even inclusive of some more expensive chinese brands.

Still, it is another interesting example how something can end up standard. That is the pin layout and the stem for keycap.

> Just the cheer quantity of that number is crazy to me.

The count is a bit inflated because different colorways of the same design by the same manufacturer are often sold as "different" switches, but even if you filter those duplicates out there's still a ton of distinct ones out there.

Is it so bad to stick with a product that works? I use a Cherry KC200 MX specifically because it is a simple office keyboard.

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