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Very well-written. I agree with you 100%. The PHP bashing has gotten really old.

I too am looking forward to what this new mobile PHP project will entail.

If it allows me the same benefits as the language does on the web then I'll be using it, regardless of how many people think that makes me "not smart".

That was part of the OP's point. "PHP's killer app is the LAMP stack and $5 hosting."

That option makes PHP useful in many cases where arguably better languages would not be smart choice.

But, without that same value in the mobile space, what's the case for using PHP over, say, Objective C or JavaScript or Ruby or Lua, other than not knowing Objective C or JavaScript or Ruby or Lua?

Let's go over those:

- Objective C: not a competitor as it doesn't do multi-platform, which I assume will be PHP's main angle.

- Javascript: weird OO model (compared to PHP's traditional OO), much smaller set of API's, typically tied to a web UI (PHP would probably wrap around native UI API's). Along with C# I consider this the strongest contender, but I can see why people would prefer PHP.

- Ruby, lua: does anyone actually use those on mobile? I'm sure they have their qualities, but those are really niche languages (on mobile). To me these are not serious competitors.

re: Lua. http://www.coronalabs.com/products/corona-sdk/

There's RubyMotion for iOS, and some JRuby->Android thing I haven't looked at in a while.

BTW, what about PHP's OO is traditional? Certainly not traditional like Smalltalk. JavaScript s probably better thought of as prototype-based, not OOP.

given that the whole point of Lua is that its easy to embed and run everywhere, I can guarantee that someone is using it on mobile somewhere.

Lua is very popular with iOS game developers.

Lua is very popular with most game developers.

There is a Lua mobile game framework as well (which is why I popped Lua into that ad hoc list).

>there are a wide range of top quality frameworks and libraries written for it

Exactly. It makes it a great first language too, since it's interpreted right off the bat for a LAMP stack.

I'd love to see you write a detailed case study defense of PhP...even though I realize it's kind of a raw deal to be expected to mount a formal defense for your own profession, especially given how much it gets trolled. But from the non-PHP fan's perspective, PHP persists because it has a strong foothold, not because it is clearly a more secure and enjoyable language.

It doesn't help that PHP's ubiquity has attracted its fair share of bad programmers. Maybe not more than other languages, but the human mind, when lacking available data, will make judgments based on absolute count (I.e. I know more terrible PhP programmers than I know terrible Go coders) rather than by ratio.

I started with PHP and did not enjoy the syntax, though I doubt I would be in web dev had PHP's stack on Dreamhost made it easy to make my first interactive apps. But I could never say that its conventions are conducive to good coding habits...but I have no place to judge, as I was a bad coder when I learned PhP and I may have been just as bad were I to start out with Python.

> PHP persists because it has a strong foothold, not because it is clearly a more secure and enjoyable language.

It is still immensely satisfying to write in any text editor <?php echo (2 + 2); ?> and then see 4 on your screen. And then to wrap that in HTML and really get going. No compiling, no libraries to include, that's it. After writing code in Java and C (12 years ago), that is a breath of fresh air, and that's what got developers of my generation interested in PHP.

Do you have more options today? Absolutely. Python and Ruby were extremely obscure back then. No longer. You have Node.JS and of course, good templating libraries for all of the above.

But PHP is a templating language at heart and it's still the easiest to embed into HTML and see immediate results. That's pure joy.

Funny part? None of my production PHP code touches HTML or any client side stuff in any way. It just pumps data from the database to the client-side JavaScript.

And it's still immensely enjoyable. Why? Because PHP is aimed at the lowest common denominator. It has to work for that dude in India and it has to work for the 50 year old guy who just decided to switch careers. Which means the base language has to be dead simple. And it is. It's pretty much C with a few web-centric functions thrown in. That simplicity is enjoyable.

I'm sure it's all fun and enjoyment while you're writing the code; but what about going back 2-3 months later, or worse, hiring additional developers on the project? How enjoyable is it to have reams of inline server script across multiple pages with no clear structure or intent?

Thanks for the answer. I agree with the ease part. And not touching the HTML, if that's how the app is arranged, is also good...I think my worst memories involved maintaining PHP that I (not knowing better) just threw into HTML when it seemed right.

You are indeed being trolled. Through the years I have learned to avoid PHP haters all along. While they are wasting their time trying to prove they are better, you are probably getting things done or just enjoying your day because you have already finished.

The reality of it is that it doesn't matter. People have their reasons for making their particular choices, neither of which are good or bad, or are worthy of avoiding or seeking out. I disliked PHP enough to move my career a different way; so fucking what?

As such, you're basically wasting your own time trying to prove PHP haters are worse off.