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Comment by jcon321 | Hacker News Reader

You have no issues with handing over your cell phone to a police officer who pulls you over? I imagine you'll say "all I have to do is present an ID", but what if the officer cannot read it, so he wants to hold it? Okay you wont let him hold it, so he bends down and gets real close to your phone? You know he must verify the address against his database, so you're going to make him write down your address as he walks back to his car? Yea some people cannot afford this type of friction when dealing with police officers.

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Places that support Apple's digital ID / Wallet state ID do so by utilizing a an identity reader that the user taps their phone against after selecting which info they want to convey. It is not meant for the owner to physically show the phone to the requesting party.

I'm sure this will happen in some cases especially in the interim where digital ID is technically not accepted but the person doesn't have their physical ID. An example would be a traffic stop in a state that currently supports digital state ID since usually the digital ID is basically only supported at TSA currently. But the cop looking at your phone doesn't add any more authenticity vs you just verbalizing the info and them writing it down which is what they usually do if someone has a photo of their missing ID.

Also, Apple cleverly designed it so if phone is in locked state and you activate wallet and select ID, the biometric scan it does doesn't unlock the entire phone and trying to get into the rest of phone requires another biometric scan or phone password.

From the article "Users do not need to unlock, show, or hand over their device to present their ID."

That assumes every LEO, bodega, grocery store, etc. goes out and buys the terminals to read these things though. Assuming LEOs you encounter will never just say "sorry, my reader is broken, go ahead and unlock your phone so I can bring it back to my car and type in your info to look up your license" feels naive, especially for folks with darker skin tones.

I agree it's possible to present your ID without unlocking your phone, but is it likely?

It is likely that the reader will be implemented into a phone / tablet app so will be pretty ubiquitous eventually.

FWIW it will never technically be legal to rely on visually looking at someones phone to verify age / id bc it would be incredibly easy to fake the display and physical interaction. The only reason it can work as an ID is if it is digitally verified by a reader.

But I do agree that especially in the interim there will be cases where LEO will coerce a phone handover but I don't think this will be a long term problem since physical interaction with the phone does nothing to verify authenticity. You may as well hand them a piece of paper you printed out with your info.

> It is likely that the reader will be implemented into a phone / tablet app so will be pretty ubiquitous eventually.

They may wind up ubiquitous, but reader usage will be determined by the officers in the field, on a case by case basis. Take a look at jurisdictions where body cameras are mandated but are turned off, or intentionally obstructed.

Don't hand over your physical ID either. Unless you are driving no one can make you identify yourself with a government ID.

I think you're forgetting about flights. And country borders. And I'm not sure how much luck you're going to have opening a bank account... does your birth certificate work for that?

His point is more that if you're walking down the sidewalk on a cop asks you for your ID, you're under no obligation to provide it.

But now that ICE is carrying facial recognition scanners that you're not allowed to opt out of, I guess the point is probably moot.

You do not need an ID ti fly within the USA

As for birth certificate, it is a document that shows you are a citizenship and does identify you and can be used. It’s common in other countries as a document to open back accounts so in many ways it can in the USA.

> You do not need an ID ti fly within the USA

Unless you're trying to be unnecessarily pedantic, yes you do.

There are exceptions like if you're a minor, if you're a passenger on a general aviation flight instead of a commercial one, etc.

But if you're an adult and you want to hop on a commercial flight from JFK to LAX, you need government-issued photo ID, period. You're not getting through security otherwise.

No, you do not:

https://www.united.com/en/us/fly/travel/trip-planning/us-tra...

"If you forget your ID, you may still be able to fly after some extra screening."

https://www.tsa.gov/travel/frequently-asked-questions/i-forg...

"I forgot my identification; can I still proceed through security screening? In the event you arrive at the airport without acceptable identification (whether lost, stolen, or otherwise), you may still be allowed to fly. By providing additional information, TSA has other ways to confirm your identity so you can reach your flight."

Every USA airline has this documentaiton, and TSA has this documentation on their website too.

>Unless you're trying to be unnecessarily pedantic, yes you do.

Edge cases should be accounted for IRL. People like you are the reason why the right to privacy is being eroded away constantly.

>But if you're an adult and you want to hop on a commercial flight from JFK to LAX, you need government-issued photo ID, period. You're not getting through security otherwise.

The evidence I presented above states you can. Whether or not it's seamless or comfortable isn't a discussion, nor should it be "pedantic" to know the rules presented by these organizations.

If you forget your ID, then the extra screening will attempt to find existence of the ID in databases. The ID still needs to have been issued in the first place. This is mainly if you lose your driver's license while traveling, it lets you get back home. It is in no way some kind of general-purpose mechanism for flying without ID. And it's a gigantic hassle that may take hours at the airport to sort out, leading you to miss your flight and wait to be rebooked.

You're absolutely being pedantic and argumentative, and I can't even begin to imagine why. I assume you know perfectly well that an ID is required to fly as the general rule. I can't imagine what you think you're trying to accomplish by arguing otherwise.

And if you really want to be pedantic, note that the word used is "may", not "shall":

> In the event you arrive at the airport without acceptable identification (whether lost, stolen, or otherwise), you may still be allowed to fly.

Because it's not a guarantee.

> You do not need an ID ti fly within the USA

As far as I can think of, you always need an ID to get through security, just before entering the baggage scan?

Then don’t do it

Just like it's an option to not use credit cards, cell phones, email, etc.

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